vol 306. Commit to Uncomfortable with Jennifer M.

SPEAKER_00 0:01 We believe that alcoholism is a disease, and that Alcoholics Anonymous is one solution to that disease. I'm here to bring you the voices of its members. Everyone that comes on the show, including myself, is an active member and has found recovery in the rooms of AA. As you listen, please take what works for you and leave the rest.

SPEAKER_03 0:25 My name is Jennifer, and I'm an alcoholic. My sobriety date is 4'4 of 24. I was born in St. Louis, Missouri.

I have one brother and one sister. My brother's six years older than me. My sister is two years older than me. Not a lot of alcoholism in my immediate family.

I grew up in a middle class family, nothing too crazy. My father was a painter, an industrial painter, so he traveled a lot. My mother was an RN. She was in school a lot when I was in elementary.

And then when I was in junior high, she graduated and became an RN and started working the evening shifts. So there was not a lot of parental supervision in my home. It was kind of left to my siblings to uh watch over me. I changed schools in fourth grade.

Uh, so that was a really difficult transition. Felt like kind of the new kid, the odd kid, uh, didn't really fit in with the cool bunch, but didn't really have a place there. So I kind of fumbled through fourth and fifth grade, uh, got my first bad grades in fifth and sixth grade, went to Catholic schools, and uh the principal was a nun. She was not too fond of me, kind of got in trouble a lot.

And when my sister went to high school, um, she kicked me out of seventh grade. There was a lot of abuse in my home. My father used to hit us with whatever he could get his hands on when we were in trouble. Uh, he had a two by four that he cut a handle into.

And when I was nine years old, we got caught smoking and he blackened us pretty good. And uh somebody saw it on my sister's legs and told the principal. So I got called into her office and they called child abuse on my dad, and that was the same principle that kicked me out of school. But when she did, she put her hands on me and left a mark.

And so my father threatened her because she called child abuse on him. So they just did a transfer instead of an actual expulsion. So, as you can imagine, you know, I'm in seventh grade, I transferred to another school, and I did not fit in with that group at all. It was very awkward for me to make friends, and I didn't really trust a lot of people.

There was a lot of physical, mental, and sexual abuse that had happened uh in my home when my parents were away. My cousins used to stay with us, and I had two older cousins that were boys, and one of them um would sexually assault me and my sister. So I just didn't really trust a lot of people. I was very skittish and shy.

In eighth grade, some some boy really liked me, and he was a very popular kid, and so we kind of dated a little bit, and I went ahead and ended up uh having sexual relations with him, and he immediately dumped me, uh, which was kind of traumatic for me, and that was uh the first time that um I just felt like I didn't want to live. Um, I had attempted suicide and was put in a in a mental hospital and then had to go back to school after that, and the teasing and just you know the isolation and it was it was a pretty pretty difficult time for me. After I graduated eighth grade and went to went to high school, I still kind of didn't fit in. Tried to hang out with my sister and her friends, and they just you know, I was I was the little little sister.

So I was introduced to um drugs when I was 13 years old. And I remember the first time that I got high, uh, it was with my dad, and I kind of just felt okay. I wasn't crawling out of my skin, I wasn't, I didn't feel awkward. It was what it did for me.

I could talk to people without feeling weird, and so I started drinking with my sister's friends and my brother's friends, and I was looking back, I always drank alcoholically, but I thought that's what you did. I thought that you know, you drank to get drunk and blackout. I was definitely running from my feelings, and obviously I did some things when I was blackout that I wasn't proud of. You know, I would wake up and they would be like, Do you know what you did?

And so I kind of steered away from it a little bit. And then when I was about 14, 15, I I had a boyfriend that I would run away with. I was never home. I didn't want to be at home.

My siblings didn't like, they didn't like me being around, they didn't want to babysit me. My parents were never there. So I just left and uh found myself in a lot of trouble. I was always an accomplice to the people that I was around.

Spent a lot of time in juvenile, spent my sweet 16 in juvenile. My mother would tell me, you know, if you keep doing this, something bad's gonna happen. And of course, I didn't believe her. Um, you know, that's not gonna happen to me.

But when I was 16 years old, I was uh raped at gunpoint. That kind of put a halt to things. So I ended up right after that going to jail. You know, that gentleman went to jail as well.

And after I got out of juvenile that time, I was gonna go back to school and and do everything. Um, I went into a girl's home and I got my GD and I got a job and uh I was doing all the things that that they were telling me to do. And then I got a phone call that my cousin had committed suicide, one of my older cousins. That was very traumatizing for me because he was like my brother, and he was not the one that assaulted me, but it was his younger brother that did.

And he would always come in and try to try to get his brother out of our room. So I felt like he was always there, like trying to protect us because he knew something was going on, and so I just idolized him, and that was very difficult for me and my my sister and his younger sister, and just the entire family took that very, very, very hard. He was 25 years old when he died, and he left two younger children behind, and then fast forward a little bit, I met a guy and was doing good. I was um, you know, working and I had my GD and I was saving money.

I had gotten off of probation. They only put me on a on probation until I was 17, and then I ended up my mom kicked me out of the house and I moved in with him and I got pregnant. So that kind of stopped all the partying and um drugs and and things like that. You know, I had the baby, and then he was drinking all the time, and I would go to work and come home, and and he would be drunk, and the baby would be toddling around, and I just didn't like the situation that I was in.

So I left him and moved back in with my parents. And at this time I wasn't doing drugs, I wasn't drinking, and I met my now husband. The baby's father would take him on the weekends, and then we would party. And I was still, you know, I was just doing it to have fun.

I was having a great time. We ended up getting married and having two children, and the the partying never really stopped. I guess I kind of I thought I had it under control, like we would drink on the weekends, and I had another cousin who had two younger children, and they would come over to our house and uh barbecue, and and then their children would kind of watch over my children because they were older. So I thought we were being responsible.

But looking back on it, I mean, we were hungover, we spent lots of money, it was very irresponsible. And then I got a phone call in the middle of the night that my cousin stabbed her husband because he was he was beating her, and the police wanted me to come pick up the 11 and 14-year-old. And so them two moved in with me. I found out that dad would beat mom all the time on the weekends, and it was just a really, really ugly mess.

But we weren't doing that kind of stuff, so it was okay, right? We quit drinking as much, you know, because it wasn't it wasn't funny anymore. But after things settled down, the drinking picked up again. It was on the weekends we would go to concerts, and when the older one became able to drive, she was driving us to concerts, and you know, we were just getting hammered, and and then people quit hanging out with us and uh or they were just too busy to hang out with us.

And then this girl that I grew up with moved in across the street, and she was into some heavier stuff. She was taking pills, and um, I figured out that if I took one of those and drank, then I wouldn't have to drink as much. So I started I started doing that. That kind of got a little bit out of hand, and in June, in June of 2012, my oldest son's father passed away, and we were there for that.

So it was kind of a little bit traumatic to watch him die. And then in July, I was raped on my back porch by one of my neighbors. On July 12th, my grandmother died. August 9th, my other grandmother died, and on August 31st, I was in a car accident.

So, in that very short period of time, I went through some depression. Um, I was having panic attacks. Uh, they put me on a bunch of different medication, and then I got into the car accident, and then they had me on pain medication. And the whole time I'm I'm still drinking with the medication, and I've got migraines so bad that I can't get out of bed.

Um, I can't hardly open my eyes. Things really took a turn for the worse that year. My husband was afraid that I was going to die either intentionally or on accident, which was a very feasible thing to think about. And so we made the decision to move from St.

Louis to Rogers, Arkansas, which is where his parents live. They had a guest house, and I thought, okay, I'll move there and things will get better. Um, the problem was that I took me with me. We moved to Rogers, and my husband stayed back to help the company that he worked for and to finish the finish some things on the house so that we could put it on the market.

He ended up staying back for an entire year. And while he was there and I was here, I had gotten kind of into a big tiff with my sister-in-law and my sister. We just completely severed communication, completely stopped speaking to both of them, uh, which of course led to me not speaking to my brother either. And then around 2015, two years later, I had tried to explain to my mom what had happened between me and my sister, and she just kept saying, you know, it's between you and her.

I don't want to get in the middle of it. I love you both. And I would I would drop it and leave it alone. Well, in 2015, uh the phone rang and I was up there visiting, and my son, my 12-year-old son, picked up the phone and overheard my mom and my sister having a pretty ugly conversation about me.

And so I I just said, don't worry about it. Just grab your stuff, we're gonna go. And the next morning we got up at five o'clock in the morning and left. Came back to Rogers, and I went eight years without speaking to my to my mother.

During that time, I was still taking medication and drinking with it. Um and so that went on for a couple of years until it became a serious issue between me and my husband and and his parents. So I decided to get off of get off of that. I got off of that for about a year or so.

Um, I I found a job working for Lowe's, very quickly went from being a waterer to um a manager and then an assistant store manager. So I worked my way up very, very quickly within a year. But uh a contractor, I I tore my shoulder lifting some concrete, he had offered me some pain medication. And so I was like, Yeah, I'll take it.

And that it triggered something in me where I felt like I needed to have it all the time. And so he would come in every day and he would give me pain medication and just one or two, and I could make it through the day. And then on the weekends I was I was drinking alcohol. My husband's from his family is from Louisiana, so they, you know, which is a big drinking community.

Anything they do, they drink. So my father-in-law and my mother-in-law, like, I don't understand why you can't you just have one and put it down. So I was like, oh, challenge accepted. I'm gonna figure this out.

So I would have one, but then I would just be sitting there thinking about having another one or how I could go into the kitchen and sneak it. Um, so I would take one glass and I would take one little sip out of it, and then I would go into the kitchen and act like I was getting something, and I would just down that glass and pour another one before they saw. So I was hiding the alcohol. If I was controlling my drinking, I wasn't having a good time.

And if I was having a good time, I was not controlling my drinking. You know, I've gone from beer to whiskey back to beer to drinking wine because I thought I could control that. And I I never could control any of it. Um, I was really just fooling myself.

My perception of reality was just so delusional, thinking that I had everything completely under control. So I decided that I was gonna kind of back off the drinking, and I found that I could do it for a day or two, or you know, if I had gotten really wasted and felt like I was in a lot of trouble, I could stop drinking for two to three weeks, um, just until things kind of calmed down at home, even though, you know, I was constantly thinking about it. Taking the pills at work became more often and all the time. I made a really, really bad decision.

Uh we were building a house. Uh, we had decided to build a house because I wanted to get out of his parents' guest house. And so we got the construction loan and we bought the the land and uh we started building, and that was very, very difficult on both of us because the only thing we hired out was a septic in the well. Like I literally cut and tied the rebar that was in the footing of the house, but I was getting my employee discount, so we were finding things it it it was working out very well, actually.

I was getting stuff at a discount, I was finding like special order things that people had returned that they were giving me for cheaper, and so my husband was building the house and I would come on the weekends and the evenings and and help him, but it it was really, really difficult for our relationship. I wanted to keep receipts on everything, and he didn't think that was necessary, and you know, we just kind of argued about the whole, you know, whether it was financial or putting this in or putting that in or doing it this way or that way, and and it really put a strain on our relationship. Now he's not an alcoholic or an addict. As a matter of fact, he doesn't drink at all anymore.

He quit after after the assault. He every once in a while, like maybe every couple months, he'll have one or two, but really he's he doesn't he doesn't mess with it at all. So that became a real problem, you know. The the tension and the aggravation, it just kind of built up for both of us, and he became really depressed.

And I I didn't know how to get him out of it, so um, you know, working out is kind of his thing, so I got him a thing for CrossFit. Uh and he started doing that on a pretty consistent basis, and then he started meeting this girl there at seven o'clock in the morning, just him and her. And so my mind was going absolutely insane thinking about what was going on there, and then he did a competition and he trained for this competition. He was gone all the time, he wasn't working on the house, so he was consistently at the gym because he was training for this competition.

We go to the competition and I saw the way them two looked at each other, the way they touched each other, how close they were standing to each other, and it drove me absolutely insane. I didn't know what to think. I started drinking more, and I had gotten a medical marijuana card, and I started going to the dispensary and anything to change the way I felt and get away with it. So there was a contractor there who he was kind of sweet on me, and um he came in every day.

Well, I um I had done what they call a refund rebill, and there was my extra money on the card, and I had brought it home on accident and threw it on my on my on my dresser with a bunch of stacked paperwork everywhere because I never went through the mail, I never went through paperwork, you know, things were just chaotic. And a couple months later, my husband found it and used it because he thought it was one of our cards from refunding things for the house. So I ended up losing my job because he used the employee discount when he did it, not knowing what card it was. And I was absolutely devastated, blamed him for me losing my job, and that just created more trouble.

I went to work with the contractor, and um I decided I was gonna I was gonna leave my husband. I just couldn't do it anymore. So I ended up cheating on him and and then I decided I didn't want I didn't want didn't want to be with this person that I I do love my husband, and so I left him or I left working for him and I went to work for another company, and that's where things kind of got out of hand. Um I started drinking all the time, all the time, every day.

The house that we built was on a mile-long dirt road, and I didn't want to drink a drive, wasn't gonna do that, so I just decided I was gonna drink on the dirt road. So I got some really hard liquor and I would down that before I got to the house so that they wouldn't know I was drinking. Well, that became not enough, and so I started drinking on this other road. It was only a two-mile road before the dirt road, because that's you know, that's that's not as d as dangerous.

So I started drinking on that road, and then next thing I know, I'm drinking on the main highway road because I just can't can't get drunk enough before I get home. And I could not stop, like I swore I Never drink and drive, and now I'm driving all over the place, swerving all over the road, and I'm afraid I'm gonna hurt someone, and I can't figure out how to stop. You know, I'm going into work hungover, and things have just really, really gotten out of hand. We had moved into the new house, and my children ended up staying with their grandparents because they didn't they said they didn't want to drive all the way out here, they wanted to be closer to school.

I now know it's because they didn't want to see what was going on. I now believe that it's because they didn't want to see what was going on. They knew I was drinking all the time. I thought I was hiding it, but obviously, you know, they could he could smell it on me.

I was slurring. I remember one time like I fell and he said, Why don't you just drink another one, dumbass? Excuse my French. But that's that's kind of how bad it got.

And a guy that I was working with was doing some other harder drugs, and so uh methamphetamines, and so I said, Hey, you know, I want to try that. You know, I wanted to get off the I was still taking the pills. The guy from from Lowe's had followed me over and was still bringing me pills every day, and now he's asking for um favors that I don't want to give him. Like I didn't didn't want to go there, but I can't help myself because I'm I'm addicted.

I can't stop. Can't stop the pills, I can't stop the the drinking. Um so I thought, okay, well, I'll use this other substance to get off of that because I can control this, right? Um, I mean, I don't know who in their right minds thinks that they can control that that type of substance, but um, I sure thought I could.

And I did until I didn't, which was, I don't know, maybe two weeks. It did help me to stop the other other stuff. I stopped drinking, I stopped, I stopped the pills, but I couldn't stop that, and it got out of hand very, very, very quickly. I ended up getting down to about 98 pounds, and I couldn't I couldn't stop.

SPEAKER_02 24:20 Um I lost my job. SPEAKER_03 24:24 Um so I I decided that my family was better off without me and I knew we I had a life insurance policy, so I figured that I would just go ahead and take my life and they would be better off. So I took six bottles of pills, uh, medication, and went to sleep. My husband was supposed to go to another job that afternoon, and something told him to come home.

He found me laying on the the side of the bed. I had fallen off the bed, onto some stuff, aspirating, barely breathing. So he picked me up and he put me in the car because we lived 45 minutes out of town, and he drove me to the emergency room. And when we got to the emergency room, I wasn't breathing.

They immediately intubated me and put me on life support, and I was on life support for three days. When I woke up, chained to the bed, because that's what they do, so that you don't pull the tubes out. My immediate thought while she was going to get the nurse was I'm gonna do this again. I I don't know how to stop.

And so I started crying because I didn't know what to do. They put me in a in a mental hospital. I transferred over into their rehab facility for about a week and I got COVID. I came home, they sent me home, and I relapsed again.

So I again attempted to take my life and was on life support again. And this time I decided that I was gonna go into a rehab facility. So I went down to Elgin, Texas, because I knew the first time that uh someone made me mad or I couldn't take it, I would sign myself out. And that's not easy to do if you're nine hours away.

So I went down there and I stayed in a in a rehab facility for three months. We meditated four times a day, and after about a month or so, I started to kind of sort of feel a little better, like like the clarity was was coming. I was still afraid to go home. So I stayed for for three months.

There wasn't a sober living or a facility for me to come to when I got home. There weren't any beds available. So I just went straight home and I thought everything was gonna be okay. Like I'm better, everything's great.

However, that was not the case. My kids wouldn't look at me without being disgusted. My husband was just infuriated, and so I I went to an AA meeting because that's what they told me to do when I got out, and so I started going and I got a sponsor and I started to work the steps, and then I ended up relapsing. I could not take all the emotions of the guilt and the shame and remorse.

But I decided that I was gonna continue to try it. I kept coming back because that's what they kept telling me, keep coming back, but everybody else kept telling me go away, right? So I just kept coming back and I I was in and out for about 18 months before I finally got any kind of sobriety under my belt. I remember having two months of sobriety and thinking, Oh, I got this, right?

I'm I I can do this. And the first time I got sick, I uh I I just couldn't couldn't take it and ended up going back out. But then when I finally decided that I was gonna get comfortable in the uncomfortable till I got to the other side, that's when things really started to open up for me. I just decided that's it.

Whatever, whatever you want, I completely surrendered. That was that gift of desperation. Um, I wasn't doing it for my husband, I wasn't doing it for my kids, I was doing it for me because I felt like I couldn't die and I've got some kind of purpose, so I need to I need to sober up and figure out what that purpose is. And so I got a sponsor and I started working the steps, and I got finally got through all the steps, and it was it was a struggle, it was a battle for me because one of my sponsors just decided she couldn't take me anymore right when I was on a four-step, and I felt like I was being tested, and you know, I meditated that didn't work, so I went for a run in the woods, and then I fell and broke my ankle, and you know, all these little things that happened, but I just kept getting back up, kept calling my accountability buddies.

I stayed very close in the middle, was chairing meetings and doing the bridge the gap where you take the meetings into rehabs. Um, I just got in the middle and I stayed in the middle. And today things are so much easier. I've, you know, I've I've got two years of sobriety and I've only got today, but as long as I get up and I show up for for my sobriety and I put my will in God's hands and I do the next right thing, the next right thing seems to happen.

I feel like I need to continue to work for my sobriety every day, just like you would work out for your health to make yourself feel better. I I work out for my sobriety to make myself feel better. I had this God-sized hole that I didn't know was there. I didn't know that I was trying to fill this hole inside of me that only my higher power could fill.

And by the grace of my higher power, who I call God, I am still sober today. When I first got sober, we had had a bunch of I I quit my job to go because I was gonna go to Mexico to get sober. And and then about two weeks later, we got some tornadoes, and there were seven tornadoes in our area, and my husband owns a boat dock company, and so there was a lot of boat docks that were torn up, and he needed some help dropping anchors and doing that kind of stuff. And and so I was I was gifted with the opportunity to help him for six to seven months get out of the hole that I had helped create financially through being in rehabs and the hospital and losing my job and and things of that nature.

So there's just one one miracle or gift that I think um I was given uh to kind of make a little bit of an amends there um and help him to see that you know I really was serious this time, that I was really was going to make this work. You know, I've I've landed this really good job that only by the grace of God I have. Things have just fallen into place. I go to meetings and there's so many people there that I love and that love me genuinely.

You know, I didn't trust anybody when I got there, and I realized after a while that the people in those rooms have been through the same pain and and the same hurt that I've been through. And they really just want to help and give it back. And now that I'm that I'm on the other side of the steps and I'm helping other sponsees, like I I completely understand. I get it.

Like I would do anything to help somebody come out of that pain and that sorrow and that depression that I was in. They say you can't keep it unless you give it give it away, and so I I try to I try to do that every single day. I get to travel for work, so I go to meetings in like Dallas, Texas, and Little Rock. And you know, when I walk into the rooms, it's just like a whole family setting, and it's absolutely beautiful.

Uh, I made my amends last November, and I got to speak to my brother and my sister for the first time in like 13 years. And I, you know, last month went to a birthday party for my my brother's granddaughter up in Illinois, and just the promises that have come true and the the beautiful things that I've seen and been able to do, like help my parents move, you know, my elderly parents move into a different house and watch my sponsee grow. And now she's going into treatment centers and helping other people. It's just a really beautiful program.

And the life that I live today is so much different than the way I grew up or the you know the life that I was living before. I'm not crawling out of my skin with anxiety or just uncomfortable. I can sit with myself, I can actually look at myself in the mirror and I'm okay with who I am today. I don't regret my past nor wish to shut the door on it because I've used it to help so many other people.

And if if it'll help one person, then what I went through was not for nothing. So I'm I'm very happy with where I'm at, and I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the program of Alcoholics Anonymous and the fellowship and the service. It's just it's a beautiful program, and I think that um I think that they were definitely led through a higher power to write that book to help the hundreds of millions of people that this program has helped. I would not trade my worst day now for my best day back then.

It really is a beautiful, beautiful life. And I I feel like I've been given a second chance. Um, I have several more years. Uh my grandchildren will never have to see me drunk, drink or drug.

And that's that's beautiful. I've mended my relationship with two of my children. Um, one of them still doesn't speak to me, but that will be in due time. That will have to be in his time, not mine.

Um, and I'm okay with that. So I owe everything that I have today to AA. If you are new to the program, I highly suggest that you get a sponsor and work the steps, but put yourself in the middle of the fellowship and let them love you until you can love yourself. And that is my story.

Thank you for letting me share. SPEAKER_00 35:24 Thank you, Jennifer. You shared with us who Jennifer is, and and I I love getting lost in a story, and it makes the miracle of recovery so much sweeter when when we have that context. So I appreciate um your approach to your experience part.

Um funny, I have an older brother, six years older, and a sister two years older. Um so I know what that dynamic looks like for sure. You said that you went to Catholic schools and you mentioned also the rehab, I think the one in Texas, that you were meditating, I think you said four times a day, and then you mentioned your higher power um there towards the end a bit. Um when I would love to hear more about what your step 11 looks like two years into your sobriety.

What does your um what does that look like? How do you do step 11? SPEAKER_03 36:45 So when I got sober this last time, I I decided that I was going to wake up at 5.30 in the morning, and I'm not a morning person at all by any means, but I was gonna set that time aside to pray and meditate because I felt like that's what I was missing in my in my previous attempts to get sober. So I did that and I stayed vigilant every day with that.

And at first, I would just pray to stay, please keep me sober that day. And then at night pray, thank you for keeping me sober. And that's kind of where it started, and then I started doing the prayers that are in that everything AA app. Um, you know, the third step prayer and the morning prayer.

And, you know, it was kind of I was just kind of reading along the St. Francis prayer, the Our Father, and it's kind of just kind of morphed into I turn my will over, I ask him to take care of my character defects, I ask him to to get in my head before I do, you know, guide my thoughts, my intuitions, and my actions, you know, please keep me from being selfish and self, you know, full of self-will and dishonest and afraid. Free me from anger and resentments and fear. And I find that when I do that and and I pray for other people, you know, and just ask for his protection over my family and my friends, you know, especially my my AA family, I find that my mind is a lot more peaceful.

And then there's the 86 through 88 on awakening, let us think about the 24 hours ahead, let us consider our plans for the day, you know, as long as my motives are good and and I I pray and then I meditate because I was told that praying is talking to God uh or to your higher power and meditating is listening. I find that when I when I do that, I always get the answers that I need. And my day seems to be a lot quieter, a lot more peaceful. I now understand the peace that surpasses all understanding, where you can be in a in a stressful situation and not not be stressed or anxious about it, just be calm and peaceful in order to make a clear decision.

So things are just a lot a lot different than they were. And and at any point during the day, if I find myself getting a little a little restless or or unsure, um, I can always stop and pray. And it seems to bring me into alignment and center me. I hope that's helpful.

SPEAKER_00 39:37 Yeah, yeah, it's really helpful. Actually, I wrote down um what you said about the peace that comes feels lovely, but it also is functionally helpful and it produces even more peace. Here, hear me out. You said um the the calm and peacefulness allows you to make clearer decisions.

Uh, I suspect you mean like in the moment of what would otherwise be drama or struggle or stress or worry or whatever. And it just had this aha moment of what I've said to my kids before is you can get to the other side swiftly, or you can make it worse and make it take longer by overreacting or um spinning, or all of the things that happen were in the heat of the moment. But that is one of the gifts that the program gives us, right? Peace in the heat of the moment, which means we get to more peace faster.

Am I making sense? SPEAKER_03 40:53 Absolutely, absolutely. There's a emotional sobriety that um not a lot of people talk about, but it's there because when I was new in the program, my emotions were everywhere and I had absolutely no control over them. And now I do have control over them.

I can feel a certain way, but that doesn't mean that I have to, you know, swing that pendulum all the way that way and completely overreact. I can just kind of break it down and say, okay, what do I do about this? Let me let me assess this, or get to the, like you say, get to the other side faster without without dragging things out. SPEAKER_00 41:32 Or making more problems that you then have to get to the other side of.

You know, it's like you had one, now you got three with my yeah, if I have boys, and so they'll, you know, have an emotional like, well, at first it was just one broken toy, now it's two kind of thing. SPEAKER_03 41:50 Yes, absolutely. You know, the beautiful thing about this program, and you know, I I don't want to offend anybody when I say this, but you know, my family was very sick, my children, my husband, because you know, it's not just the alcoholic who gets sick, the whole family does. And what I'm able to notice now is how the program of alcoholics organically has helped them through my behavior changes, if that makes sense.

I notice my husband's praying more and he's a lot calmer. I've noticed different things with my two younger children, and they're they're in their 20s, you know, they're in their early 20s, so their emotions are kind of crazy. Um, but yes. So they're calling me, freaking out about something, and I'm able to calmly say, hey, let's assess this.

You know, you don't you don't have to get upset about that, or very calmly remind my daughter when she's upset with traffic that, hey, you know, you are the traffic. Maybe just breathe a little. Um it's it's not just the fact that I don't have to drink or drug anymore, it's so many other things that this program has shown me and gifted me with. And I've learned, and it's I'm constantly learning more more things.

Uh more will be revealed, right? And it's it really is beautiful. SPEAKER_00 43:20 Yeah, that reminds me of um that reminds me of just this whole attraction, not promotion where um one person in a family can positively influence every other member just by doing esteemable acts. And then the influence that a mother has on the rest of the household.

And maybe it's just because I'm projecting as the mother of my household. But I feel like I can change the temperature of the room on the way I show up each day. Absolutely. Maybe give me an example of um a way in which you've showed up recently that was starkly improved from three years ago.

SPEAKER_03 44:27 You know, people in the room said that, you know, some were sicker than others, and we're all at a different level in our in our recovery. And so when I first came in three years ago, I may have gotten offended by somebody by their rude comment or clack it across the room during a meeting. Today I don't try to control other people's behavior. I don't get upset when somebody says or does things that I don't agree with, right?

Because we're all different. So I'm more so looking at my behavior and how I can help someone or be there or show up in a different way than I am looking at other people's behavior and how they're showing up. So it's really kind of changed my lens and my perspective by doing that tenth step. I I watch what I say, where you know, I was a little more impulsive in the things that I blurted out in the beginning.

I'm more cautious of how is this going to affect this person if I say this. My sponsor says it's sometimes we need a speed bump between our brain and our mouth. And that is very true. Because we don't know what somebody's going through.

You know, some little, some small comments that we think is is harmless may offend somebody because it may trauma trigger them. Or, you know, just saying, I'm gonna choke you, that might trauma trigger someone. So just being more cautious of the things that I that I say and how I say them and who I say them to and my behavior, you know, am I taking more coffee than I'm giving in the in the collection plate? Um, am I giving back?

Am I being of service around the hall? Or I think about those things when I do my my tenth step at night. I go over my behavior very very diligently. SPEAKER_00 46:34 Do you ever go over the positive behavior attributes of the day?

SPEAKER_02 46:41 Uh yes, uh I do. SPEAKER_00 46:45 I do. Tell me about something that you are really proud of in your life today, that you're like, I'm I'm doing this part really, really good. If it's your tenth step or showing up to meetings, like what is the program piece that is filling your AA soul these days?

SPEAKER_03 47:13 I would say fellowshipping and making other people feel feel good, making making the newcomer feel welcome, noticing when a friend of mine is just kind of having an off day, maybe commenting on how cute their shoes are, or things you don't normally you might think about in your head, but you don't actually say that might make somebody feel good. I feel good when I make somebody else feel good. I'm a big hugger, so I hug a lot of my friends. You know, there's just certain people in the program that I see they light up when I show up, but I try to light people up when I show up, and I try to tone it down because you can't you can't go from desperation to absolutely joyful, and and it can be kind of frustrating for a newcomer if they're sitting in despair.

For somebody to come in who's just absolutely in a great mood, right? Bouncing off the walls, yeah, bouncing off the walls, happy, butterflies like floating around their head. Right, right. When I first came in, I was like, who are you?

Get the heck away from me. Like, I don't want like this is bull crap. You're not a real alcoholic. Somebody who's in despair can't relate to somebody who's just absolutely happy and joyful all the time.

So I kind of come in neutral sometimes, and then you know, it's just being there for other people regardless of where they're at, meeting people where they are. That's important to me. And just making that connection because it's it's hard to be alone and it's hard to be isolated. Um, that's what our that's where our disease wants us.

It wants us isolated, it wants us alone. Um, and what we're missing is that human connection um with other people. SPEAKER_00 49:05 Oh, it's hard for some of us alcoholics who hate humans, but we need humans. SPEAKER_03 49:12 That's true.

That's so true. It's like I hate people, but I love them at the same time. But um, I think that's where the serenity comes from. That serenity prayer comes in handy and acceptance, accepting people the way that they are.

You know, it was so difficult for me to um to make amends to some of my family members, but putting myself in their shoes and and understanding where they came from, especially like my mother and my father, and what their background was and and how they were raised, you know, and accepting them for who they are instead of wanting or expecting them to be what I feel like they should be. I think that makes a huge, huge difference in sobriety. It's just meeting people where they are and accepting them for who they are and not trying to change anyone. Because if you don't have expectations on people, you don't expect them to be like the person you want them to be.

Um, then they can just be themselves and you're okay with that. Someone explained to me like love and tolerance. You know, the love and tolerance is our code, but tolerance is giving the space needed between two people in order for them to be who they are and for you to be who you are, and allowing that space and allowing love in that space, no matter who it is. SPEAKER_00 50:32 Yeah.

Yeah, I really like that. It reminds me of the um when I'm okay with me, I don't need to fix you. And oh yeah, that one's a good one too. Yeah, it's just when I'm at peace with myself, when I'm beating up myself and I'm in shame or guilt or remorse, that means that's where my my mindset is.

That means I'm gonna be beating up everybody else around me too. Not not always, but um, I'm more inclined to have high expectations on you if I have high expectations on myself. When I'm gentle with myself, I can let things go and let you be you, kind of that's how it works in my head anyway. Allowing yourself to be human and make mistakes and not be perfect.

Uh yes, that's uh I'm gonna keep coming back on that one. SPEAKER_03 51:26 Well, one I, you know, I let guilt and shame and remorse take me back out the door a hundred times. And my one of my sponsors is like, you need to take that stick that you beat yourself with and you need to put it in the closet. And if you decide that you want to beat yourself with it, like call me and I'll let you know if you can, right?

Because we tend to say things to ourselves that we would never let anyone else say. Like if somebody said to me the things that I say to me, I would probably pop them in the mouth, right? But I'll say the things to myself. So her telling me that, um, it just kind of helped me like compartmentalize, like physically taking it and just shoving it away until I could work the program and do what I needed to do to be okay.

Then I could kind of look at that and forgive myself for that person that I was before for doing what I thought I needed to do in order to survive. Because another person was like, How do you forgive yourself? And it's like, if you just work the program and you get through the steps, you'll figure out that you're a completely different person on the other side. And once you're that completely different person, you can look back and forgive the person that you had to be in order to survive.

SPEAKER_00 52:44 Jennifer, that was really, really poetic. It's just stuff I've learned in the program. SPEAKER_03 52:52 It really is. It really is.

Because I I fought, I fought self-forgiveness. But you know, I used to joke that I could I could do my makeup in the car and I didn't even have to look at a mirror. And somebody in the meeting shared that they they wouldn't shave in the mirror because they couldn't look at themselves. And that's when it dawned on me that the reason I didn't do my makeup in the mirror is because I couldn't look at myself.

And and I don't know if you've ever heard of Mel Robbins and she's got like a podcast, and she wrote that book, Let Them, but she also wrote a book that's called The High Five Habit. And that book talks about um, you know, because if you if you think about giving a high five, talking, you know, to a toddler, like, good job, great, keep it up, keep doing that. Like, if you give somebody a high five, your brain automatically thinks positive things, like, great job, keep it up, awesome, uh, congratulations. So, what she's developed is this, you know, she wrote this whole book about giving yourself, looking yourself in the mirror, eye to eye, and giving yourself a high five.

And what that does, she says a couple things are gonna happen. One, you're gonna laugh, probably, um, because it's just gonna seem like something super silly. But two, your neural pathways are gonna start to change because you are automatically telling yourself you're you're hardwired to believe. Good job.

You're doing great. So if you try that for a week and you give yourself a high five in the mirror, it will change the way that your brain thinks about you in your neural pathways. SPEAKER_00 54:27 That reminds me of smiling. Like, I can smile.

I tell the kids, I uh like just smile when I when I drop one off at school. I'm like, okay, smile. Your brain doesn't know any different. You are feeding, like I tell them, think of your brain as like a computer or an AI agent, and you're feeding it information, it is going to respond.

So if you tell it you're happy, it'll say, Oh, okay, I'm happy. Let me release happy hormones. If you smile and say, You're doing a great job every day, I can see that same release um happening that with that microhabit. So I really, I'm really glad that you shared that.

I love that um physical act of looking oneself in the eye. It's much more than a smile telling your brain to be happy. I I really like it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 55:27 Yeah, yeah, you're welcome. That wasn't me. That was I've learned that I've learned that along my journey as well. I just, I don't know.

I'm always looking for like ways to because I really did hate myself there for a long time. And I'm I'm still learning to love myself, and I do love who I'm becoming. But like I'll I'll put my hand on my chest and tell my body that it's you know, you're doing a good job. You know, I might not be at the weight that I want to be at, but you know, my body has gone through so many things, and I'm still here.

I can still walk and talk and see and smell and taste and touch and feel. And so sometimes I'll just say, you know, you're doing a good job. I love you. Keep it up.

It makes a huge difference. I just physically feel so much better. SPEAKER_00 56:17 I like that. That's another physical act.

Hand on chest. You're doing a good job. Deep breath, right? SPEAKER_01 56:23 Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 56:23 Yeah, and there what I learned in that treatment center. Here's another one for you. Okay. Um, because it was called mindfulness and recovery.

And uh they they like the guy that developed it actually became a Buddhist or a Buddha monk or whatever. And so he would we would meditate a lot, but what they taught me about meditation, and I know a lot of people in the program struggle with meditation, is that one you concentrate on your breathing, on your breath. If you don't know how to meditate, just concentrate on your breath. I count to 10 in and out.

And the reason why they do that is because if you sit in your head, you're future tripping. If you sit in your heart, you're ruminating about the past. But if you concentrate on your lungs and your breathing, you have no choice to be in the present moment. And so they teach you to count to 10 and then restart and count to 10.

And your brain is gonna wander. That is what your brain does. It's gonna wander off. And when you realize that your brain has wandered, you just gently bring it back and you start your counting over.

And what you're gonna find the more you do that is from the time your brain wanders to you bringing it back to the present moment is gonna get shorter and shorter and shorter until you can stay in the present moment and make better decisions. SPEAKER_00 57:52 That's so simple. SPEAKER_03 57:54 It's very simple, but it's very, very true. SPEAKER_00 57:59 Yeah, and the only hard part is sitting down to say, I'm gonna try to do this.

Because the way you just outlined it, anybody can do that. You just sit down and count your breaths. Can you count to 10 or can you not? And so the hardest part is just sitting down.

Right, right. SPEAKER_03 58:18 And for new people in the program, you know, I I've had seven different sponsors before I actually made it through the steps, but I had one that was a guy, and he was just he was temporarily sponsoring me till I could find someone. And and I was supposed to be writing a dissertation on the doctor's opinion, and I kept putting it off and putting it off, and I was going here and helping this person, I was going here and helping that person. I was like, you know, I'm working on it.

I'm just gonna uh, you know, I'm almost there, I'm gonna get it done. And he he said he had told me that I needed to sit down and shut up, and I was like, I do sit down and shut up. He's like, You're not listening to me. You need to sit down.

The reason you're running here and you're running there is because you can't sit with yourself, you need to sit and just be and get it done. And so I think for new people in the program, that's so hard to just sit and be. So true. So true.

And that's why I think medit my own opinion, that's why I think meditation is so important because it helps you to just sit and be. And it it's very difficult at first. I've been meditating for I went to that treatment center in 2020. So I've been medit well, no, it was 22, May of 22.

And so I've been meditating for four years, and I still find myself where I can't like the longer I don't do it, if I don't do it every day, it gets harder and harder. It's kind of like it's kind of like a sport, you know. Yeah, yeah. SPEAKER_00 59:53 Or my weights, like if you pick up the weights every day, they're super simple.

But you lay off for a month and you're not gonna be able to do the same number of reps comfortably. SPEAKER_03 1:00:04 Right, right. That's kind of how meditation is, but you just gotta work up to it, you know, be like, I'm gonna sit here, I'm gonna do this for five minutes. SPEAKER_00 1:00:11 I'm gonna do this for it's creating the micro habit.

Like you just need to start with like two minutes or five minutes just to create the habit of sitting down and doing it. SPEAKER_03 1:00:23 And it does, I I mean, I know a lot of people um have ADD and ADHD and things like that, but like it does help if you put meditation music on. Not any kind of guided, no talking words, right, right. Yeah, no talking, just um, just maybe like some some simple melodies that are very, very mellow, and then you can count because it kind of gives your brain something else to think about while you're counting.

So I know like for some ADD people, like music in the background will help them focus on certain things. SPEAKER_00 1:00:53 I light a particular candle, so my brain is like, oh, it's time to relax. And it's like when you walk in the bathroom and you're like, oh, I have to pee. My brain doesn't know, but my brain's not very smart, it'll believe whatever I tell it.

Yes, that's so true. SPEAKER_03 1:01:10 That is so true. SPEAKER_00 1:01:13 Oh okay. Is there anything that you left out of your story or that you um are thinking of now that you'd like to share?

And we will pause. I don't I don't think so. Okay. That is an answer.

Then we've made our way to the final question. For the listener who is suffering, what message would you like to leave them with? SPEAKER_03 1:01:46 If you just make the decision to get the comfortable and the uncomfortable until you get to the other side of the steps in the program, let them love you until you can love yourself. There is a whole nother world out there that you never knew was possible.

It's like being rocketed into the fourth dimension. SPEAKER_00 1:02:19 For more information, read the first one hundred and sixty four pages of the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous or visit keepcoming back.net.