vol 312. The Application of Now with Bruce O.

SPEAKER_00 0:01 We believe that alcoholism is a disease, and that Alcoholics Anonymous is one solution to that disease. I'm here to bring you the voices of its members. Everyone that comes on the show, including myself, is an active member and has found recovery in the rooms of AA. As you listen, please take what works for you and leave the rest.

SPEAKER_03 0:29 I had my last drink November 11th, 2018. That was my sobriety date. The last drink was probably the ninth. I truly believe not by choice.

I um I still believed at that point in time that alcohol was my problem, which which I soon later learned that that alcohol was not my problem. Self-centered fears and insecurities, selfishness and self-centeredness was truly, truly the root of my problems. Even you don't know what you don't know when you're going through life. And the truth is, is that self-left to self, Bruce was running my life.

When I'm doing what I want to do, I'm one of the most selfish, self-centered, egotistical. I'm a taker, I'm a runner, I'm a hider, I'm a liar, I'm a denier. Self-left to self does one thing, it wants to satisfy self. You see, that book says, it's very specific, is that I suffer from alcoholism, and it's true that I suffer from it.

I like that we read at the beginning of the meeting our personal adventures before and after. What are we talking about before and after? Well, before and after the last drink, isn't that what it is? Because that's where all my problems really occur from the alcoholism is before and after the last drink.

Once the drink's in me and the phenomenon of craving takes over, I uh I have no choice in the matter. You know, I I have to be physically removed from alcohol. Uh I wake up in the back of ambulances, I go to penitentiaries, go to jail cells, uh, I do all this willingly, but the whole time I I blame it on other people. Um I make a bunch of decisions based on self, and then I step on the toes of my fellows and they retaliate and and I blame you for it the whole time.

I blame other people for it. And I don't know these things when I'm out there ripping and running, because the truth is is that when it's working, it works. And when it's a solution, it's a solution. And it works for a long time.

And if I'm not done, I'm not done. But if anyone's story is like my story, what happens is it hits it hits a point in time to where it stops working. And until that point in time, I'm probably blaming it on my childhood or my upbringing, or you know, physical i and mental abuse at at a young age and circumstances and stuff like that. It it's the truth of the matter is that I've never been unable to be a good son, I've never been unable to be a good member of society, I've never been unable to be a good father, I've never been unable to be a good coworker, I've never been unable uh to be anything, I've only ever been unwilling, but I I don't know these things, and I'm I'm treating this this terminally ill disease, this this spiritual malady, I'm treating it with with alcohol.

Because the truth is, is alcohol was the first and and and the best spiritual experience that I experienced until I established an actual relationship with God and my fellow human beings. And when I when I got that drink in me, it was the best damn solution I ever found. I mean, alcohol, I mean, good heavens, and once once the ease and comfort came over from them few couple drinks, and I I have had a significant enough personality change to recover from Bruce. That's what it was.

I could talk to the girl, I could work hard, I could do the thing, I could be funny, I could be be comfortable in my own skin. It completed that spiritual experience was sufficient enough to fill that gaping hole in my soul. One of the biggest promises in that book that I found so true is that after we straighten out spiritually, once we straighten out spiritually, we straighten out mentally and physically. But I have a disease that's always reaching for the outside fix for an internal condition.

You know, it says I have to get the girl, I have to get the job, I have to have the money, I have to have the car, I have to have a thing. My three societal instincts are running rampant, and they constantly say that I need something on the outside to f to make me feel complete. The problem is there's not enough. See, my alcoholism is it's it's so unsatisfied and it's so judgmental and it's so opinionated that I could put together the world, I could get the job, I could get the car, I could get the girl, I could do the thing, but what happens is a little bit of time goes by and I can't stand the girl anymore.

But she's the best thing that ever happened to me, but I can't get rid of her. And the car's not the right color, and I show up to the job one day, and what happens is you know, they're not running this place right. The the alcoholic ego is just a magnificent machine that comes with all this all of this judgment and opinion and selfishness and self-centeredness, and I can't even see it when I'm operating under the guise of self. Even when I came to Alcoholics Anonymous, I couldn't see the 135-pound shell of a man that was hepatitis stricken and just absolutely beat to the ground.

I still think that somehow I can put down the drink and I can just stop drinking and and I can I can beat this thing. I can win. I can beat this deal. You see, I don't know what I don't know, and it's tragic and it's killing me at a rapid rate.

I believe that the isms and the spiritual sickness and the and the mental obsession I was stricken with from a very, very young age. Heck, my poor mother, she had me in psychologist and psychiatrist offices at a very young age. You know, I get done with the psychologist, and you know, I get thrown out of his office. We don't know what's wrong with him.

We don't know if he's psychologically, but he's definitely an asshole. And I get thrown out. And then I'm in the psychiatrist office, and he's writing me prescriptions. He's got ADHD, he's depressant, all kinds of terms and everything like that.

And he's mental health, and they they write me prescriptions, and she that poor woman had no idea what to do with me. She used to call it oppositional behavioral disorder. She used to say that I just lacked the ability to take any type of suggestions or guidance in life. I was just so selfish.

What's in it for me? You know, I'm I'm when I'm running my life, I'm looking at two main objectives. What I want and how I feel. You know, and if you have what I want, I might ask you for it.

I might manipulate around you. I if I have to, I'll run your ass over and take it. That's just that's just how I operate. I we call them normies a lot of times in the room.

You know, normies are out there in life. They're making decisions based on empathy, sympathy, love, responsibility, uh, accountability, caring, family. Um, oh, they're making decisions on all that. Not me, not the real alcoholic, the real alcoholic of the hopeless variety.

I'm out there making decisions on what I want and how I feel. And I don't, I I truly don't want to hurt that little girl that doesn't have a father. I don't want to disrespect my parents. I don't want to hurt my employer.

And the crazy thing about it is when you're in the delusion of alcoholism and in that peculiar mental twist that precedes the first drink is you you could hook me up to lie detector tests first thing in the morning. And when I'm when I'm in the later stages in the third and fourth personality type, that to the wives talks about when I'm close to that oblivion stage, and I'm telling you, the alcoholic, I want to want to stop, but I don't know that I don't have the power to do that. And you could hook me up first thing in the morning. I say, I'm not gonna put one in me today.

The problem is I don't have the power to make good on that comment. And then I go into the day and I start to make decisions based on self. And even to this day, right now, I can leave this recording and what we're doing right now, and I can walk out those doors and I can make a bunch of decisions based on self, and one thing's gonna happen. Somebody's gonna get hurt.

Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but somebody's gonna get hurt. And at the very least, that person that's gonna get hurt, it's gonna be me. And nobody can punish me like me. There's no judge, there's no prosecutor, there's there's no authority, there's no parent, there's no nothing.

I put myself in my own prison. This is the only prison that we we you know we put ourselves in that the keys on the inside. And I come into these rooms and and y'all are so happy, and you have the simple souls, trust God, clean house, help others. And I think there's something more to it.

Because you see, what I'm good at is I'm good at burning my life to the ground at an exponential rate. You see, it takes me no time flat to do it. From 16 years old to 38 years old, I would just burn my life to the ground time and time again, and then I'd quit, fall followed by random sessions of improvement, and then I get better, and I get better, and I go to the penitentiary, and I go, and in my mind, I'm getting better because I get a little bit of the thing back, I get a little bit of the material back, a little bit of the stuff back. The truth is I'm getting worse, and what I'm getting worse at is I'm getting worse spiritually.

I'm getting more separated from God and more separated from you, the true people that I need. You see, everything I put between me and God, I put between me and you, and everything I put between me and you, I put between me and God. And God rigged the whole game because the giver gets it all. But I'm a taker.

I'm a taker by nature. And when I treat this disease with alcohol and it's working and I'm ripping and running, I'm just going and going and going. I'm going to share my first very important spiritual experience to where I separated very far from God because it's a lot more important than any drink I ever put in me. And I'm in my early 20s, and me and girlfriends, we're having a child 10 weeks premature.

I don't have a relationship with God. I don't even know if I believe in God. You know, I was raised in a religious household, whatnot, but that has nothing to do with the experience that I have with God because I had no experience with God. I definitely didn't, and no relationship with God.

Michaela was born 10 weeks premature, and I'm what's called a 911 prayer. When the heat's on, I'm talking to God. I think he's a Bush league pitch hitter. I think he works for me because that's how selfish and stuff.

God, my grandma's dying of cancer and she's in hospice. God, keep grandma Doris alive long enough to hold her first blood great grandchild. That's what I want. You know, my will supersedes anything.

And um me and mom went to grandma and made the decision to tell her, you know, your first great-granddaughter's here. She's a peanut. She's like one pound, eight ounces, and a glass incubator at Akron Children's. But uh, you know, she's gonna be alright, but you you won't hold her yet.

And my grandma died that night. And my mom wore that like a bad wig, and I got mad at God. I got I said, How could this be possible? I asked for one simple thing.

See, that's the whole story of my spiritual disease and my sickness, is I don't have the objective ability to look at life for what it is. I can't bring gratitude and humility to the table, serving self, all these various manifestations of self. I don't have the ability to look at it to be like other people looking at, I'm looking at God, why did you take grandma? She needed to hold her her granddaughter, whereas other people can look at a situation and said, Dear God, take her now.

She suffered enough. I can't see life like that. My perspective is shot. I'm so consumed with self, I can't even I can't even see the forest from the trees.

So what happens is I serve self and then I burn my life to the ground time and time and time again until now I'm going to the penitentiary and I'm waking up in the back of ambulances and I I get released from that penitentiary and in 2014 after doing a year, you know, I hurt somebody in an aggravated vehicular assault car accident. I compromised someone's health and life and well-being. And I want to tell you I felt bad about that. And I did for a second, till I spun it into my version of the story.

You see, they didn't go to the authorities, to the law, to the lawyers, and the people contacted them afterwards to try to come after me. You know, for my money I don't have. So it's terrible, it's horrific. But I didn't I don't learn anything from that because I'm going, I'm running on self.

One year of forced sobriety, 365 days in the street. They're releasing me from the state penitentiary and they're giving me state pay. You know, I'm shaking like a leaf in November when that money hits my hand because I've got a year of forced sobriety, but no recovery. No recovery whatsoever.

But I wrote all those good dad letters to my daughter. You know, daddy's gonna come home and be okay, and this, that, and the other thing. I made all those blank promises to my parents. And I I don't have the power to make good on any of that because I'm what that book calls a real hopeless alcoholic that suffers from chronic alcoholism.

I got these anxiety tremors, and I'm shaking like a leaf in November when that money hits my hands. And I tell you, I wanted to make good on living a different life, but I don't have that power. And I was to the liquor store and lying to my parents and had a bottle of Bacardi in my hands within three hours of being released from the penitentiary. And when you serve self at the rate that I do, it doesn't take long.

You see, from that point, I went on, I got sued twice in the penitentiary for around $890,000. At this point in my life, between child support, creditors, and things, I'm in debt $120,000. I have absolutely nothing, no license. I don't try to put my life back together.

I just run on Bruce. I'm gonna find the girlfriend to tote me around. I'm gonna find the employer that'll put me up with me. I'm gonna do all of this Bruce's way because I've got this.

Watch this. The alcoholic ego is a magnificent machine. It thinks it knows what it's doing, and I have no clue that I have no clue, that I have no idea how to run my own life. The unmanageability comes in at a massive rate.

And I think that because I'm just drinking somehow, I'm special. But the truth is, is alcohol took me places that nothing else ever took me. And it only takes a limited amount of time to the point where I'm yellow and I'm hepatitis stricken, and I'm not allowed on my parents' property, and I'm getting thrown out of my own condo by the Summit County housing auditors. My girlfriend doesn't want anything to do with me.

My employer had a withdrawal seizure on some scaffolding at work, and I jeopardized his well-being, his company, the clients we were working for, and I still can't see it. I'm getting released from the hospital, and I'll never forget that young intern doctor that looked at me and he said, Bruce, you got to do something. You don't understand, you're gonna die. He says, Your blood work and your blood pressure and your hepatitis is out of control.

And he he looked at me and had tears in his eyes on that second withdrawal seizure when I came to, and I came out of that alcohol-induced coma, and I had to learn to walk again, and I had to pass all the tests, all the mobility tests. My poor father sitting in the chair next to me and says, Bruce, I don't know what to do. It was poor people that actually love us and care about us, and we just steamroll and steamroll and steamroll our lives and take them through all of it with us, willingly. If you'd had somebody come up to me 27 years ago and said, Bruce, I'm alcoholism, and I'm gonna take everything worthwhile in your life.

I'm gonna take your relationship with your child, I'm gonna I'm gonna send you into massive health complications, into massive death, your relationship with your parents. I I forget that, Bruce. I'm not gonna take it from you. You're gonna give it to me willingly for just to put that one more in you.

You see, I have a mind that never forgets about what alcohol once did for me. Even to this day, if I go to the to the restaurant and get some chicken wings and I start having that that thought process or that conversation with myself as to why that guy can have that drink at the bar, I lose that conversation every time. I lose it every time. A sick mind can't heal a sick mind.

I can't go to the place where the disease rests. You see, the disease rests in my mind. It's his playground in his patient. It's got all the time in the world to wait on me.

I don't know any of this stuff, but I do know that when I got released from the penitentiary and I burned my life to the ground in three years straight, and I'm in and out of ER rooms, my grandfather died. Husband of the grandmother that started early in my story, and that was my guy. That was my favorite guy in the world. And it hurt and it stung.

And for the first time in a long time, I felt feelings, and the alcoholism couldn't blot out that pain, that guilt, that shame, that remorse. And you know, God pushes this message through other people. My cousin's up from Florida, and he loads me up in his truck and he takes me to Walmart and he goes up one side of me, the other, and he says, Bruce, I'm up here to bury my grandfather, and I don't want to come up here in a couple weeks to bury you. So I found you a bed at this detox facility, so we're going there.

And Bill says, the will to go to battle wasn't there anymore, and I didn't have it. So grudgingly, I I let them take me to this detox facility. I went there. They almost couldn't get me admitted because of my blood pressure.

And um, in that facility, I ended up getting admitted, and I took the meds the first day, and then what happens is that alcoholic ego's magnificent machine. Second, third day. Um they're not running this place right. I'm nothing like all these drug addicts.

I'm nothing like all these people. I just I I just need to get back out of here and stop drinking and put my life back together. I just need I just need to get my girl back. I just need to get my cat back.

I just need to get my license. I, I, I, me, me, me. Old timer says kids got nothing between the eyes, and I can't realize it. I'm looking in the mirror thinking my eyebrows are messed up.

But only the real alcoholic stumbles into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous like I once did, telling you guys what I need. How what I need to put my life back together. Folks, I only know what I want. And mostly what I want is rooted in selfishness and self-centeredness and money and material and power and prestige.

What I need is to trust God, clean house, and help others. That is the only recipe that has given me not relief, but freedom from this disease called alcoholism. And when I'm sitting in that detox unit and I can't, I I just don't have the balls to call my family and to ask them to come get me. Any other time, man, I've got stories, I've got excuses, I could get somebody to come bail me out.

And the only reason that I didn't is because that particular day, three days in, it would have been November 13th. Yes, it would have been November 13th. They're getting ready to lay my grandfather's body in the ground, and I didn't have the balls to call any of my family members. You see, what happens for this drunk is it took every drink.

I had to be in that place of despair, desperation. I had to go through all that stuff. I had to be in the bottom of that hopelessness, and I can take no credit for any of this. This is God's just grace and mercy.

Mercy being I'm forgiving. Grace means I did not earn it and I damn sure don't deserve it. But what happened is one of you guys came into that facility. Like someone comes into them facilities all the time at 7 p.m.

on November 13th, 2018, and I'm sitting in there in that chair thinking about how I'm nothing like that person, that person, that person, and that person. I'm nothing like him. I'm comparing my way out of there. I'm not looking to relate, I'm looking to separate and get back to Bruce because my alcoholism needs me alone.

It needs me in my own mind. It needs me away from you, it needs me trying to fix yesterday and manipulate tomorrow. It cannot have me in the now, it cannot have me loving you, it cannot have me loving God. And when that man came in, I can't tell you what his name was.

I can't tell you really what he talked about or what he said, but he shared from that little black book. It's not conference reproved literature, it's that little 24-hour book. But it's useful and a lot of people use it. And I can't remember the whole reading, but I can remember when he comes in and he talks to Judge about judgment.

Who am I to judge other people? Have I proved my great success in life? That I know all the answers. Due to my record, I've made all the mistakes there were to make.

On the basis of my conduct, am I fit to be a be a judge of any other person? And is he saying that? I'm sitting there judging everybody in that room. And then what happened is I can't take any credit for this.

God lifted the lie long enough for me to see the truth of myself. Real raw, unfiltered humility for the first time in my life. And then it hit me like a sick. Pile of bricks.

Maybe I maybe I am the reason I'm sitting in this chair. Maybe Bruce has something to do with the reason that his daughter doesn't have a father. Maybe Bruce has something to do with the reason I'm $120,000 in debt. Maybe Bruce has something to do with my blood pressure was $210 over $109 when they when they let me in this place.

Maybe, just maybe Bruce has to do with the whole reason that I'm sitting in this place and I didn't like it. And you know, good sponsorship and my my my first sponsor, Billy, you tell me, you know, the truth will set you free, and that's true. Truth will set you free. Only if followed by rigorous action afterwards.

The truth behind that is the truth will set you free, but it'll wreck your friggin' day first. And it wrecked my day and it rocked my world, and I couldn't unsee it. And so I'm sitting in that back room back in there with my bunking and I'm sweating the sheets. I'm going back and forth in the mirror, and I'm getting in the mirror, and I'm looking at my face and that busted up face and that broken, sorry excuse of a 38-year-old human being and that pitiful, incomprehensible demoralization.

I keep looking, I can't shake it, and I can't shake it. And what happens is I ended up making my peace with God that night. A God that I don't even know that I believed in that time, that I had little to no conception with, that I had no experience with, that I had no relationship. And this is just how great the God that I serve is.

His love is unanimous. It is huge. That is the one thing in Alcoholics Anonymous that we have that was shown to me by people in the rooms and by God from the I really conceded my innermost self and prayed to God I didn't believe in that. I wanted, wanted so bad not to live like this.

I got that ease and comfort. It's because of a loving God. Love. It doesn't discriminate, it doesn't separate, it's it's endless, it's plentiful, it's free, and it's powerful.

And that's what I got from that guy that came to that unit. He came in there and he expressed love and gratitude and humility. And I've never seen anything like that. They say you can't give away what you don't have, and that's what I got.

I got a guy that came in there that took time out of his day to come in there and tell me that he loved me and he'd never seen me and to try to relate to me. And I remember that. I remember him talking about the feelings. I remember him talking about the alcoholism.

I remember him talking about the deal and not pressuring me to do anything. So I sat in that unit and I'm going on nine days. The lady said, We can we can let you out of here to be with your family on Thanksgiving. And I looked at her and I said, You know, I really don't trust myself yet.

Can I stay longer? And I'm like, and she goes, She started tearing up and she says, Bruce, this this is why I do this. Because every now and again, someone like you that comes along that that that just might make it. And I remember the ego takes off.

I remember, who, me? I've been sober for like nine days. I got this. Had the same underwear on for like two, three.

I have no bank account, no place to live, no life to go back to. But the alcoholic ego is already building itself up, thinking that I'm doing something. If they could keep you up to 14, I stayed 13. I didn't know where to go.

I groveled with my uncle and he put me in the top of this four or five-story old farmhouse on a farm. And he says, This is against every ounce of intuition I have. But I'm gonna keep you here. He said they wanted to put me in inpatient treatment so bad.

He said, if you're gonna refuse to that, do that, which I did. You want to get an alcoholic to do something, tell him not to do it. Or you want to get him not to do something, tell him to do it. He said, You're gonna go to them A meetings, and he took me in that old farm truck down to that church.

And I'll never forget walking into that church for the first time, beaten up, not even a couple weeks sober, still shaken, still broken face, still black eye. I walk in that church, and then there's there's three old timers in the back corner, and they look right at me and they get the most crazy orange grin on their face when they see me. You see, I'm thinking about waiting for him to leave the parking lot and go and get in a tall can of steel reserve. And it seemed like an eternity when I got in there.

But what I seen in those guys is the most beautiful thing that I still ever see in these rooms to this day is that when somebody goes stumbling in the doors, not knowing, not knowing that they're dying of untreated alcoholism, and the hand of AA is right open, right there, folded out. And then old boys says, We've been waiting on you. That black guy tells us everything you need to know. Come over here.

We love you. We want to tell you a couple things. First off, is that we love you, and your story doesn't have to compare to my story, my story doesn't have to compare to your story, and whatever you got going on out there, you don't have to live that way, but you're gonna have to do some things. So, what's what's that?

They said you're gonna have to trust God, you're gonna have to clean house, you're gonna have to help others. We got God, we got spirituality in 12 steps as a suggested program recovery. And they came out of the gate with that and they didn't make no bones about it. And I asked the one older guy, Billy, I said, Will you pick me up at the farm?

And that old boy pulled into that farm every day. It's six, seven days a week, same time. Carreek and a nasty dollar store tobacco smoke, and I'm I'm all offended because they're smoking, and they think I'm the funniest thing in the world. They're taking me to these meetings, and every day, and after a week, I get that text message.

My sponsors have been appointed. I didn't choose any of them. They've been appointed by God. I get that text message, Billy says, Bruce, if you put down some of the ego and bring some honesty and willingness to table, I might consider being your sponsor.

And I'm offended again. But guess who pulled in that farm every night to pick a drunk up like me? Thank you, Alcoholics Anonymous. Who gave me a place to go when there was nowhere else to go?

Thank you, Alcoholics Anonymous. Who loved me when I didn't know what love was? Thank you, Alcoholics Anonymous. Who gave me that safe haven and introduced me to a relationship with God in a program of recovery with ideals for living that works for this drunk?

Thank you, Alcoholics Anonymous. So I grudgingly kicking and screaming, I took him up on it. He said, What we're gonna do is we're gonna go to this big book study in West Acker, and we're gonna go through this book and we're gonna go through these steps. Because as your sponsor, my job is to take you through this book and these steps and help you establish a relationship with God, and then you are gonna do that with others.

He was straightforward to the point. If you do not help other people, you're gonna die. He said, This is the program of recovery. And grudging and kicking and screaming, I went to that big book study up in West Akron.

I don't want anything to do with you guys. I didn't like you guys for years. I had a lot of judgment and a lot of walls built between the fellowship Alcoholics Anonymous, and I go up there and I relate it to you guys. I found myself in that doctor's opinion.

And then I was kicking and grudging at and hesitating at the idea of this higher power in the second step, and we're making the transition in the second step, and I'm taking my sponsor's inventory and I'm saying, Billy, your version of God, this, my understanding of God, my God, this, my God, that, my God, this. You're practice Catholicism, then old boy had enough. He snaps his feet and looks at me and says, Bruce, God is not yours. I'm not telling you you have to participate in organized religion, not telling you what your conception of God has to be, not telling you what you have to go to church.

We're at step two, and I'm not gonna let you go to step three until you understand the gravity of what we're talking about. Step two, you're not it. You're not what's gonna fix you. But a power greater than yourself can do that.

And then that man dropped we agnostics on me in West Akron, and he was a beautiful man, and he carried this message eloquently and with love in very, very, very, very good, very good manner. And what happened then is all of a sudden that door became wide open, that hoop became very big. It's like National Lampoons Christmas Vacation when Helen flips on the Christmas lights. All of a sudden, I came to believe that Bruce isn't gonna do this.

He said, Bruce, nobody cares what your understanding of God is, it's not necessary. Understood is italicized in all of those steps for a reason. We understood what? That there's a power greater than ourselves, nothing more, nothing less.

This is good for sufficient for the beginning of a relationship. I have to experience God through a relationship, just like I had to experience the drink through putting one in me. I had to experience God, and he broke things down in manners to which I could understand them. In going through those steps the first time, maybe I wasn't perfect, maybe I didn't nail it, but I did it with that book, and I did it through that book, and the progression of the character.

Having had a significant enough character change, we have now recovered from alcoholism. He was imperative that the character has to change, the character has to progress in the image of God. I can rebuild a new character on a daily basis in the image of God with no relation to the character yesterday. We're reborn in that third step.

You know, first step is the problem, the second step is the solution. You know, that that that rigorous course of action, four to nine, that's progression of the character. It's all to strip away everything, to face and be rid of everything that's ultimately holding me back from what you guys. That's my whole goal is to be the maximum.

That's our main main purpose, to be a maximum service of God and others about us. Those amends, he was due diligent on the monies that I owed and everything. I still had to call and talk to people and make those direct amends and do those things. One of the hardest ones is I was spending my dog time with my daughter for years and going to her games and going, and I I don't know if I rushed the amends or what I did, but when I tried to get into it and she's starting to open up and she says, Daddy, all those years that you didn't come around, I thought it was something that I did that you didn't want to be around me.

And I buckled and I realized she wasn't ready, and neither was I. And I couldn't get through the moment, and I couldn't get through the amends, and I cried my way out, and she later left my life and my parents' life. And still to this day, I don't know why, I don't have the whys, I don't have the answers, but I stayed in those steps, and I stayed in the due diligence of that 10th, 11th, and 12th step, and in that 11th step, in those spiritual principles of acceptance and awareness, I can sit here and tell you today, now, maybe she's in a better life because I'm not in it. And God telling me directly, Bruce, it's not meant to be right now, but I've got tons of children.

I got tons of children out there. They're in penitentiaries, they're in detox units, they're in hospitals. Go out there and tell them you love them and carry the message that was so freely given to you. You see, we carry this message to the still sick and suffering.

Just like Billy, Fred, and Larry carried that message to this sick little punk that stumbled in that room. Just like Ebbie carried that message to Bill. Bill didn't call Ebbie, was like, could you come over here and blow my head off of the spiritual experience? Ebbie instinctively carried it to Bill.

And then Bill carried the hopelessness of the disease to Dr. Bob. In the same way, Bob didn't call Bill and was like, Will you come up here and chat with me for hours on end about the hopelessness of the disease? It was all instinctively done.

That's why it's absolutely imperative that we carry this message just like it was carried to me. And through that, and through the years have gone by, if you're counting, it's about seven and a half years now, on top of the amends, on top of the diligence of going through the steps and taking those actions, I get start to get relief. Relief that eventually turns into freedom. Freedom that's rooted through a relationship with God that allows me to love you guys.

Everyone. I don't have the resentments of the dubious luxury of other people that I don't have. I have to love everyone. I have to put down that throne of judgment and that virtuous sword that I really don't have.

And I have to love everybody. I have to carry this message just the way. Now, if somebody doesn't mean business or someone doesn't want to go through the book, that's fine. Maybe they're not ready.

I'll hold my hand out just as much when they come back. That's not my job is to love them. Battlefix them when they need fixed. That's not my department.

I can't, I can't do too much. I have found freedom through applying the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous to my life on a daily basis. Not relief. The relief was in the bottle, the relief was in the thing, relief was in the other stuff.

I have found freedom. Freedom from what? Freedom from the bondage of self. Am I perfect?

Heck no. Look, I've got a bunch of layers of self to shed yet. I got spiritual advisors. My first sponsor, we thought we were going to lose him.

He got cracked open. I have two sponsors now. I I'm a big proponent of walking in all three sides of that triangle. I'm a big proponent of writing inventory.

I'm a big proponent of having a really fresh new guy with me at all times because I need that spiritual horsepower to keep me humble, to keep me in a place of humility, to keep me in a place of love. Because every morning I wake up with untreated alcoholism. I do. I got the committee in my head that tells me, what about Bruce?

What about Bruce? Where are we going? And Alcoholics Anonymous has given me freedom from that. I don't know where I'm at on time, but I want to share one quick spiritual story, and I'm going to wrap this up real quick.

I have been overpaid in Alcoholics Anonymous. I owe, I owe, I owe. There is no amount of service I can do. That's how this whole thing works.

I also got to thank anyone that has served Alcoholics Anonymous in any capacity, in any form, in any event, because that's why the rooms are open for a drunk like me. That's how this message ends up getting carried is through service work. I believe in staying active in service work. And the story I want to tell is just from Founders Day recently.

There's now an on AA lead combo. And I love going to those. You get to see the hopelessness on both sides of the fence, and I always get my cry on and I get a little bit emotional. I I like to share this spiritual stuff in my own experiences, especially.

Um we're praying at the end, and I'm emotional. And when I get emotional, I get a little bit, I kind of sway when I stand there and stuff. And I'm on an end, I'm on an end row, and there's seats between me and the next person, so there's no one to hold my hand. Uh the whole room's holding hand.

It was a it was a it was a great message, experience strength and hope. And we're sitting there, we're praying it out, and right as the beginning of the prayer starts, I feel this warm big hand on my shoulder, the gentleman on the row behind me. And he sits there and puts his hand on my shoulder. And he feels that I'm a little bit emotionally disturbed, a little bit wonky, and he kind of tightens up with his hand with that reaffirming, with that reaffirming, comforting grip.

That is my whole experience with Alcoholics Anonymous. Not only is every single thing in my life a direct result of alcoholic, everything good in my life a direct result of Alcoholics Anonymous, but every time I start to get like that in my life and everything starts to get a little bit blurry and a little bit off track, that warm hand of Alcoholics Anonymous comes and puts its hand on my shoulder and comforts me. And as more time goes by and more gets revealed and more experience comes out, it ends up that that warm, comforting hand of Alcoholics Anonymous that's always there, that's always on my shoulder, that's always comforting me, has just been the warm, comforting hand of God all along. And I love you guys so much for giving me the opportunity to share a little bit of my story today and to share this message that's that's rooted in love, humility, and gratitude.

And I want to thank Tara for giving me the opportunity to share. SPEAKER_00 38:24 Thank you, Bruce. That was so fun. You are like preacher, poet, rapper.

I don't know, but it was so good and just beautifully delivered. Thank you. SPEAKER_03 38:42 Thank you. I appreciate it for that.

SPEAKER_00 38:44 I I couldn't write fast enough to get all of the amazing things that you said. Um, the giver gets it all, God rigged the game. It's just that's so simple. Uh the alcoholic ego being a magnificent machine.

You you verbalized and drew that picture for us so well. Oh hi, Bruce, I'm alcoholism. I'm gonna take everything. No, you're gonna give me everything.

You're seven years in, you're clearly working a strong program. You mentioned prison, you mentioned ambulances, you mentioned almost dying and closures and all kinds of uh craziness. You talked about having a spiritual malady that was treated very successfully with alcohol. Today you have an alternative to alcohol for your spiritual malady.

What does your program look like at this point in time, day to day? Prayer, meditation, meetings, logistically, what does that look like? SPEAKER_03 40:05 Um I I got thrown into um H9 carrying the message in the hospitals and institutions very, very early, which was a blessing. So I'm probably heavy on that.

And I have a home group I'm secretary to. For me, I I think it's an intricate balance of carrying this message to the still sick and suffering, staying in that first 164 pages and conference approved literature, going through that big book with another alcoholic, and then service work as well. And that service work can be, you know, I've seen not necessarily all in Alcoholics Anonymous. But the the actual act of carrying the message, which I do a little bit heavy, which I'm very, very passionate about.

I'd rather I'd rather go to a penitentiary or a detox facility or a men's house than I would lead due to the amount of humility. Leading is a lot more difficult for me as opposed to going to a jail. So I stay heavy with those guys, and um it's it's worked for me. I got thrown into it early.

I wasn't even a couple years sober, and one of my buddies was like, hey, they're starting to let people in the facilities after uh COVID meet me at the hospital this day, this time. You you need a chair. And I was like, hey, um, I said, I you know, I don't know if I can, he's in you know my old-timer buddies, nobody cares what you know, Bruce, but everyone will know when you start to care. And I started carrying the message in those facilities probably six years ago now, and I stay heavy on that.

That's paid huge, huge, huge dividends in my recovery by staying directly side by side, shoulder to shoulder, hand extended to the ones that are still sick and suffering. I love all of it, but that definitely has paid the biggest dividends as well as also continuing my spiritual growth through other avenues, just not Alcoholics Anonymous. I love getting into spiritual readings. My relationship with God has taken me to other places other than the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous, but that spiritual growth as well is those two together I'm predominantly heavy on, if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_00 42:26 Yeah, it does. You talked about hospitals and I and you mentioned institutions. So your HI work covers both institutions and hospitals. SPEAKER_03 42:36 Yeah, we call it HI out here.

SPEAKER_00 42:39 Um when I think of institutions, I think of like prison. SPEAKER_03 42:43 Are you taking the message into Yeah, yeah, I've been to prisons, county jail, um, state, state-ran men's houses, transitional living houses, uh detox uh units, um, sober houses, uh any place that'll let us go in. I I enjoy doing it and I enjoy y we could plant these seeds and you know, God decides when they grow, but if we aren't out there carrying this message and planting these seeds, then you know what I mean? It's my responsibility as a member of Alcoholics Anonymous to carry this message and I take that pretty serious.

Uh and I try to do it to the best of my ability. But yes, all those places mentioned will go to those. Today was a triple day. I spent a little bit of time with you, um detox unit in a county jail tonight.

It's just the way the it's just the way the numbers fell. Uh it's just the way it fell. But and then I all my affairs. I I work construction, I work fifty plus hours a week.

I have a lot of financial amends. So I've been writing checks for that huge debt that we talked about um I never filed bankruptcy my sponsor wouldn't let me uh but that's all installed humility and due diligence and it's paid huge dividends in my recovery it it's all it's it's all in the steps my sponsor was a huge step pounder and a lot of people get into the four absolutes he didn't even do that because he said the absolutes are in the steps I mean starting with the first step spiritual principle honesty you get to eight brotherly love you know unselfishness is in every step we have so it's he he didn't even do that uh we went we went right into the steps and all those little things so you've taken the steps Bruce you gotta learn how to live the steps you gotta learn how to apply the steps you gotta that's just them old boys they 12 step me every Friday night for like a year straight and we're listening to Joe and Charlie and old Dr. Bob leads and just I was a mess. I can still be a mess on some days but I don't change I'm not I'm not one that's trying to change Alcoholics Anonymous it works just fine the way it is just needs me to participate.

It ends up that that's what I needed to do the whole time was just participate in today the way today's laid out participate in a relationship with God participate in a relationship with an employer participate instead of trying to manage it I let God do that and it's it's um it does it gets better every day I would be lying to you if I said I haven't had issues you know my daughter and stuff I think we all do I think a lot of us go through huge trials and tribulations and recovery but am I truly trusting God and continuing to clean my own house and and help others if I'm doing that I seem to be spiritually mentally and emotionally fit which to this drunk is more important than anything than than the money than the thing and the stuff you feel what I'm saying? Because if if I put myself in prison if I start getting hard on myself if I start getting spiritually wonky I mean I'm in a bad place. SPEAKER_00 46:30 Yeah it's a slippery slope and it's subtle cunning baffling oh yeah sounds like you are doing all you're still willing. SPEAKER_03 46:41 You haven't lost your willingness it sounds like well there's that direct relationship between willingness and surrender and you know surrender is so big that Bill takes three steps to do it because us alcoholics are so stubborn.

I have to surrender to the idea that I'm an alcoholic it's just like my surrender is in real life my first surrender was to what alcohol king alcohol in that detox unit. My second surrender is to what self and then my third surrender is eventually to what? God and there's a direct correlation between willingness and surrender. You see I have to bring that same willingness to the table that I had when I was in that detox facility all beat up I have to bring that every day I have to seek recovery with the desperation of a drowning man.

Or guess what happens? I drowned that's what happens I am just a couple bad decisions away from taking some bad actions and then what's going to happen someone's gonna get hurt and I'm gonna get thrown into that emotional hangover that the book talks about. And when I'm in that emotional hangover I'm extremely susceptible to put one in me or to hurt more people and we can't live like that today. I've done that in recovery I've hurt people that is a horrific feeling when you're sober knowing that it doesn't have to happen.

Any learnings about how you handled making big mistakes in sobriety how I handled making big mistakes in sobriety not being too hard on myself and promptly cleaning it up to the best of my ability I have learned that that is absolutely huge. Not sweeping it under the rug if it's just with a coworker if it's with a person if it's with someone I'm dating if it's something that's going on you know a lot of this stuff can be handled with just a simple conversation with another person before it gets to resentment or fear status. Because these are all self-centered fears and insecurities that eventually manifest and I subconsciously manifest them into resentments. You follow what I'm saying?

I do all the trans every fear and every resentment I created Tara are you following me I built them and the the the crazy part is I don't have the power to take them apart only God does. What I do have the power to do is not create more that I have to deal with am I making any sense? Yes yeah I have the power to not create more you know that book's very specific when it's talking about resentments it says these resentments fancied or real have the power to kill and that's true. That means that I I allow people places and society and insecurities to control me and it has the power it said right there it has the power to kill and and that's some pretty taunt language and Bill means everything he says means whether it's real or not it has the power to kill that's scary that's scary the fear will paralyze me and the resentment will make me so angry that my conduct will cause me to hurt you and it happens every time every time I get stuck up in that pattern it'll happen to me every time cleaning that up and not being too and in turning and making myself service immediately every time I start to feel bad for myself or every time I start to get a little wonky or a little bit of rut it it never fails.

I turn myself to serving another another human being or another person and it pulls me out of it pretty quickly. I have to get out of my own damn way. SPEAKER_00 50:38 You're just taking the puzzle pieces that I've been playing with since I don't know almost 20 years since my first meeting and you're creating new pictures for me. It's really really magnificent.

I I loved all of that and I want to like say it back for the listener or for my own comprehension but that will not add value. I d listeners just have to rewind to hear the amazing Bruce again. SPEAKER_03 51:14 I'm sorry I I have no I have no idea what I say I I don't that's the one thing you asked me you said like you're gonna lead I don't I don't bring a scripted sermon like I push it from the heart and whatever happens happens I share different things all the time I was not taught to share that way I was taught to share from the heart from the first time I was I avoided the podium I still is not my favorite thing to do but I was taught that it's not a scripted sermon. It's not a comedy show it's it's a serious deal ultimately hope through hopelessness.

SPEAKER_00 51:52 And and I and I and I hope maybe somebody heard something that helps them out some way I heard a lot on a very cerebral level where I'm you're getting me thinking and understanding the disease and our recovery at a new level so I am so grateful I want to listen to it again and journal on the percep perspectives and just the whole I mean I felt bad for a second until I spawn a new story. That's what we do. SPEAKER_03 52:37 You said the key word there perspective I have a lot of people tell me they say Bruce you have a really interesting perspective and when people say that to me I'm like oh really let's go through the book I love going through the book with people and point out where I ultimately get my perspective from because it's in the book. It just is that word relationship is used way more than the word understanding there's just a lot of things in there that um and still to this day I like going through the book with people that our friend that you know me and you know I'm not going to share his name for anonymity but it's he he's helped me spiritually it's all about getting different people's experience and our our experiences and and putting it together and that's how that's how we grow.

We don't grow in self you know we grow through a relationship with God and through others is ultimately how we grow. SPEAKER_00 53:33 That's been the truth for me anyway yeah yeah it is the perspective is from the book right the puzzle pieces are all the same puzzle pieces they're the same words we're all working with the same sentences the same uh suggestions the same understanding you your perception your your ability to pull something from page 30 and page 58 and and page 110 and put it all together and and say this is what this means this is what it's saying that is unique but the foundation is in the book in the words in the pages oh yeah Bill was a very very literal direct writer he uses this he uses a lot of different words to say the same thing but you know the message is even even when he's talking about the due diligence of of of writing inventory and what we're doing it's where was I at fault where was I to blame and what mistakes did I make he uses the word blame fault and mistakes you know when we're looking at that fourth column we're looking you know and a lot of people twist that into what part did I play? SPEAKER_03 54:50 Well look I'll sell it as I played a good part I played a victim part. But when I'm looking at mistakes faults blame now it's what is it where was I wrong where was I wrong and writing inventory correctly end up finding out that I was wrong about a whole lot of stuff a whole lot of stuff and I need that humility and especially going in and to get served that humility correctly in the ninth step and in them amends that four through nine that's all about my conduct and my thinking which I put into action and what I've done and it's uh I was wrong.

I'm still wrong a lot it's okay the the the only part of me that wants to be right is the alcoholic ego and that's hard to swallow the only part of me that wants to be right is the manifestation of Bruce. It's not God and it's not built in love because it's not really that important. What can I do? And I I work I got a sponsor now he's an example of service work and he said I want to see you be doing so much that I don't even hear what you're saying.

And you'll still see me being quiet at meetings. I one of my old timers asked me the other day he said Bruce are you going to talk at you going to comment at a meeting maybe around 10 years but there's a a lot more growth in listening um than and and I I like discussing it and I like getting in that book and going with it but I also am an adamant listener. Um I like listening and getting new perspectives and I listen to a lot of this stuff that you do a lot of old timers a lot of old people I enjoy it I I love everything about it. SPEAKER_00 56:37 Well that definitely came through this was a lovely treat.

SPEAKER_03 56:42 I do have two final questions um the first one I'm gonna ask you to just pause and see if anything surfaces anything that you want to share or that you left out I don't know that ping pong ball kind of stopped um circulating around up there the application to the steps happens in the now this whole deal there's one time we can stay sober that's now there's one time that we can participate on recovery that's now I can't emphasize enough how important the application of now is in all of this deal because I have a mind that wants me to work results for tomorrow and it wants me to fix yesterday and I will blow off today and if I'm not enjoying the moment the now see this is where Bill is talking about getting rocketed into that fourth dimension of existence where I can actually see everything for exactly as it's going down instead of what I want it to be. That's that that's some heavy stuff. I can appreciate everything for exactly doesn't mean I have to like all of it but where I can pre- and be kind of cohesive Bill talks about you know that state of contentment where I can't afford to go too high or too low but where I I I'm not looking at stuff as to what I want it to be that true humility and the ability to be in the moment like this moment that me and you just shared for the past hour. We'll never have this again this this was a very unique moment but if I if my head's in other stuff or back there I don't have the moment and then the other thing I would say is the due diligence of taking steps my new my new burner lately that I'm I'm on that I don't like is people call this work do the work in Alcoholics Anonymous really it's work we have the opportunity to live two lives in in one we have the opportunity to clean up our past we have the opportunity to love our fellow human beings we have the opportunity to serve God and only the real alcoholic calls it work I get to do this you follow me I get this is a bl this is a blessing that's my new burners I absolutely it's like nails on a chalkboard I hear it work.

Work is something I have to do to take a paycheck for money for stuff other this is this is action this is step taking it says if it's not if not followed by immediate action step three is nothing more than a decision. It is nil it is done and that man in West Akron one thing he told me when we discussed this years ago and this is one of my favorite nuggets I'll share is he said I'm gonna make you a promise Bruce that's not in that book. And I will always remember this for the rest of my life he said God will never work the results for a step that you do not take and that'll always ring in my mind translation I need to take steps I need to take action I need to do things and let God work the results because I always want to work the results Tara and that's a bad place to be in because when I'm working the results I'm setting unreasonable expectations of you and others and most importantly myself and God I I am I am really shortcutting the limitless power of God when I'm working results I'm I'm trusting finite self over an infinite God. And I'd be honest with you I do it I do it I catch myself on it it's a terrible habit but those would be the two things I'd say that I might have left out those are really good additions.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38 I I can sit here and ask you questions all day just so I can hear from you. I strongly encourage you to consider becoming a preacher or or at the very least a an advid speaker for this program. You're really good at it and um the ping pong ball is able to fly around with cohesive thorough um you're drawing the image for us you're connecting the dots you're helping us think um and it's all sprinkled with hope and willingness like do the work and there is hope. SPEAKER_03 1:01:25 I really appreciate your kind words I I you I don't know what God has planned for me.

I can tell you I've felt I'm tugging lately um I do foresee some changes in my future I don't know what they are I guess that's why we have to trust God but uh it's you know just trying to live in today and in the now and um trying to keep my trying to keep my conduct as clean as I can and and and to serve other people as much as I can. SPEAKER_00 1:01:55 That's paying off it sounds like okay final question for the listener who is suffering what message do you want to leave them with the same message that it was told to me when I went through them doors in that church is no matter what you got going on your story doesn't have to compare to my story my story doesn't have to compare to your story grace and mercy mercy means I'm forgiven grace means I did not earn it and I do not deserve it but it's already here all I have to do is accept it. SPEAKER_03 1:02:36 I was hard on myself for years hard on myself for years in my first couple years of recovery terribly hard on myself I gotta pay off this debt I got to do this. I tell my guys now don't ever let anyone convince you no matter how much rec I got a new guy right now is absolutely on fire.

And um he does so much for me it's ridiculous. But don't ever let anyone tell you regardless of how many days of recovery you have no matter how many days of sobriety you have no matter how bad you feel no matter what's going on where you're at that you cannot enjoy today this moment right here right now just the way it is there's only one thing holding me back from doing that and that's me. I've only ever been a victim of one thing that's called self. There are bona fide victims on this earth but mine was majority rule making of my own makings and I really I really try to guide people in that direction we can enjoy today regardless what does it what does it say there working with uh others it says may we burn the conscious mind of of the still sick and suffering that they can recover regardless of conditions as long as they trust God clean house and help others we have to burn that idea into the mind of the still sick and suffering that no matter what you have going on we can recover.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00 We do recover for more information read the first 164 pages of the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous or visit keepcoming back.net