vol 292. Willingness to Change with Tommy

SPEAKER_00 0:01 We believe that alcoholism is a disease, and that Alcoholics Anonymous is one solution to that disease. I'm here to bring you the voices of its members. Everyone that comes on the show, including myself, is an active member and has found recovery in the rooms of AA. As you listen, please take what works for you and leave the rest.

SPEAKER_02 0:25 Good morning. My name is Tommy. I am an alcoholic. I have a sobriety date of February 20th, 2022.

I'm eternally grateful for that day. That is when I was put into a program of action, that's for sure. How it started out for me. You know, my story comes from Orange County.

I was born and raised in Anaheim, California, to a loving family. Parents still together, two older sisters. You know, life was pretty good as a child. I can't really have you know instances of where I wasn't getting what I wanted.

I was well taken care of. I grew up in the Catholic Church. So every Sunday was a journey to mass, to where I usually did not like going. I would rather just be at home, but we did that.

And so, like religion and structure, and you know, I'd say I learned a lot of good morals and values through the church, but that has always been something that was instilled in me. And there was a time in my life where I really wanted to turn my back onto it because things weren't going my way. And I wanted to blame that as the sole reason. Come to find out through the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, I needed to rekindle a new power greater than myself, and I could make it whatever I want it to be.

And that was freeing to me, especially new in the program, because I liked to hang my hat on the fact that I grew up Catholic. I grew up in the church, I already have this. And it was told to me really early by someone who was instrumental in my early recovery. He told me, you know, if that was sufficient, if that was good enough for you, then why are you here right now?

And um, it kind of just like turned the light on for me of just like, wow, okay, something needs to change, right? And that's everything. As a child, I played sports, I was really involved in, I don't know, after school activities. My sisters played softball and girl scouts, and we were always go, go, go.

At the same time, I suffered with a lot of anxiety. My dad worked really hard, and he would come home and he would be upset, he would be angry, and he would be stressed out. Understandably, now I didn't understand at the time. My mom, she kind of was the rock, I would say.

She would take us to doctor's appointments in school every day, and she was a stay-at-home mom for a long time. Again, I mentioned anxiety. I was diagnosed with OCD, ADHD, fourth grade. My sisters struggled with mental health.

My mother was also um a victim, I guess, or or she just lives with mental health as well. And at that age, I know, um 2000s-ish, you know, it was it still is, I think, but to be put on some type of medication. Fourth, fifth grade, here I am, a little kid and getting put on Adderall. And this pretty much sprung me into a realization, or what I thought at the time, that I needed a pill to always make me feel better, right?

If I was feeling a certain type of way, I needed a medication. And that was my mentality for a long, long time. And um, I hated the way those those uh medications made me feel, but I I had to take them, you know. That was the doctor's orders.

So school did not do well, did not enjoy it. I was a really hyper kid. The medication calmed me down. It was difficult for me to pay attention, I would get in trouble, I was class clownish, always in constant fear of like that report card coming home.

So, like fear, always that evil and corroding thread. It it touched me as a young child, and it's and it rained throughout my entire life. Always kind of felt off, um black sheep kind of vibe, um, like I didn't belong, like I was never a part of, even though I, you know, I look back and I was, you know, I had friends, but that feeling, which I know today is most like the spiritual malady of feeling off, you know, and I tried to fill that with anything but God. I searched for acceptance my entire childhood and even into my adult life, probably around seventh or eighth grade, people start maturing, and you're around substances, I would say.

And I got introduced to marijuana for the first time, and it was something that I was always like kind of intrigued by because I didn't think I mentioned this yet. But my dad, not an alcoholic, but would come home from work, drink a six-pack of beer, Miller Light, my mom, two glasses of Chardonnay, and I knew that when they had maybe around four beers, or maybe that first glass of wine was down, everything was chill. And I looked at my family members, even my aunts and uncles, every family function, alcohol was present. And I always looked at that as that's cool, right?

They are doing what adults do, they are having fun laughing. And when they're not on that, they're different people. And so I always was intrigued. Even before that, I would always smell this like kind of foreign substance coming from my dad's shed out back.

Come to find out, me being a little kid, would find it not knowing what it was, marijuana, obviously. Fast forward, here I am, seventh, eighth grade. Now I'm introduced to it. Yes, I want to try that.

I've always been one with the mentality where I wanted to try everything. You know, I was raised with parents who, you know, are kind of hippie-ish. They were listening to the Rolling Stones and the Doors and that whole counterculture kind of thing was something that really struck my eye, and I wanted to try everything. Even at that age, not knowing what anything was, I knew I wanted to try it.

So here it is in front of me. Try it, fall in love with it instantly, right? This takes me out of what I'm feeling in the moment. Now I do feel a part of this is awesome.

Little did I know I would spend the rest of my life chasing these feelings that I first had when I tried any substance, really. So now I have this idea like, hey, this makes everything better. I want to do this every single day. So I go into high school, I play sports, I kind of put that stuff on the back burner.

I wanted to be liked more than I don't know, someone who excelled in school or did well in sports. Like that didn't matter to me anymore. I just wanted to be popular. And how I found popularity or how I found acceptance through other people was kind of being, I don't know, the goofy kind of spicole stoner kid from Orange County.

And everything kind of fell into place with that persona. If it was either around the burnout kids and I was the stoner, but if I was around the band kids, I could talk about how I played instruments, or if I was around the sports guys, I could talk about sports, you know. So I was very adaptive, which a lot of us are, but the chameleon persona was something that I was able to do as well. Whatever you wanted me to be, I was that person, right?

And through high school, just exposed to a lot more stuff. And again, I'm not, I was never one to say no, and I wanted to try everything, and I would say searching out like concerts and music festivals, and now here I am going to Raves in like 10th and 11th grade, and and it's just absolutely accepted for you to do drugs. And I wanted to partake, right? I liked how it was making me feel.

So any type of hallucinogenic party drug, like that was something that I was really intrigued. And along with the marijuana, I was full-blown addicted to these substances in 11th grade. And my family knew they could tell, like my behavior was a lot different, and they wanted to help me. And I did not want the help.

I did not feel like there was an issue. And I want to say, in 12th grade, my mom started taking me to alcoholics anonymous meetings. Like taking me to an old hospital, going down into the basement, kind of the classic, you know, what you would think of an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, and and I would go in there, and I was full of judgment. I was like, I'm not like these people.

These guys are drinking alcohol, here I am doing this other stuff. I instantly wanted to separate. And then there were times when I wanted to feel a part of, and I would lie, right? I would lie about what I was doing, and they would look at me, and they could, I'm sure that they could pick up on these things, you know.

Stories were very outlandish, but I did not take that seriously. And like that's a red flag moment, you know, having my family put me in therapy and you know, drug and alcohol counseling, and taking me to meetings at that age, like there's something definitely out of the ordinary, I would say. Around that time, 12th grade, you know, was introduced to heavier stuff. I would say more opiates, low-grade vicodin, orco, that kind of stuff.

And that was what I really fell in love with. But was it readily available for me? No. So if it was there, I would take it.

Other than that, I'm just drinking alcohol, smoking weed. I don't know how I was able to graduate. Actually, I do. My mom put me in night school and pushed me that last um semester to a point where I was able to get my diploma, and I watched all of my friends go to universities and you know, pursuing careers, military, all this kind of stuff, and I was lost, right?

I never had real purpose. And like that, I would talk to the guidance counselors and they'd be like, What do you want to do with your life? And I'm like, I don't know. That was my classic answer.

I just don't know what I want to do with life. And I carried that one for I mean, up until I got sober, I didn't know what I wanted to do. And the only thing that I was finding, you know, solitude with was the substances. You know, I graduated high school, go to community college, drop out right away, maybe after a few weeks.

It just wasn't for me at the time, right? I wanted to party, I wanted to be with my friends, I wanted to do what I thought was cool. School was not cool, drugs and alcohol, very cool. And, you know, it progressed.

Those few years after I graduated high school, probably 18 to 21, things really took off for me. I progressed with the opiates soon enough. Here I am, 22 years old. You know, I had been kicked out of apartments, family didn't want anything to do, like relationships were broken at this point, to a point where I'm living in my Honda Civic, delivering pizzas and using heroin, thinking life is great, having nowhere to use the restroom in the morning or to shower each day.

But I'm still content because I had my substance, you know, and it all came crashing down one night when I had, you know, totaled my car under the influence, went through a wall, could have really injured myself, more importantly, someone else. And there was a moment of clarity. And I was like, I need some help. And I thought that I had enough willingness at that time to try something new, which I, you know, I was able to pursue that.

I called my parents, woke up at their house the next day, not really knowing what happened. And here I am going through the the worst withdrawal of my life, not really experiencing those feelings. You know, but my parents were so naive to it all, they were like, Well, you're not just gonna lay on the couch, you're gonna find a treatment center. And so that week was definitely very rough, but I wanted a change, right?

I wanted something better. I I felt like I had hit a bottom. Okay, so fast forward a week, the withdrawals are a little better. I find a treatment center in Anaheim, six-month program, pretty strict work, go to groups, not a lot of family contact, but there wasn't a whole lot of accountability, and the 12 steps weren't really pushed, and I was able to, you know, hang on to a lot of my character defects, manipulation, sneakiness, dishonesty, like all these things were just still very prevalent.

And even though that I was sober for the six months, and then I ended up staying another six months, you know, you give me, I don't know, three or four months after I left that program, as soon as it was in front of me again, I went right back to it. Okay, and there I am at 23, probably around 23 to 25, things just got really bad. In and out of sober livings, detoxes, and then being homeless. And it was that cycle.

I would go into detox, I would convince one of the guys who were visiting me there to pay for maybe a week or a month of sober living, and I would make all these empty promises that I'm going to get back on this, I'm gonna go to meetings. You know, I had some kind of seed of what Alcoholics Anonymous was, but I had never been fully bought in. And I was able to talk the talk. And I would give all these guys false hope, and I would go right back to it, right?

There was no sense of structure or accountability with any type of my life through that time. Like I said, things got bad, things got very bad to a point where I didn't know what else to do. I was about to be like fully homeless, like every option that I had had been burnt, like every bridge had been burnt. I think that's how it goes.

And I make a decision to go move up into the mountains in Northern California thinking like that was gonna be the change. Right? Here I am addicted to the heaviest of the heavy substances. And I just get in the car and I leave, right?

I leave Southern California where I've lived my entire life. I don't tell friends, I don't tell family, and I spent three years up there. And that's what I thought I needed. You know, I I found a friend up there and I told him my story and I told him what I had been going through, and he wanted to help me.

He said, No drugs or alcohol, no drugs or alcohol while you're up here, but you can smoke as much cannabis as you want. And I was like, okay, this is perfect, right? And little did I know that the disease was still running game inside of me. And even though when I was around this guy, I wasn't actively using drugs or alcohol, even though I was using a lot of cannabis.

Anytime where I would come back home thinking that my life was more in order just because I had money, you know, I would pick up, I would drink, and I would push everyone away for the the winter time is when I would come down, and then I would go back up, all right, refocus up six, seven months, get paid, and then right back to it. And I thought that's how my life was gonna be. All right, just stay straight for spring, summer, fall, and then I'll be able to kind of go wild in the winter. Obviously, I was not able to keep that up.

Um, the last year I was living up in Northern California, you know, work had picked up, I had earned some type of responsibility. He wanted me to kind of run things. Okay, cool. Gave me free range, told me I could do whatever I wanted up there, and of course, here I am.

I want to start drinking. This has never been the biggest issue in my head, alcohol. It's just been something that I do for fun, and and uh that's not the issue, it's it's the other stuff, right? I can handle this, and that was has been my my pattern with every substance, right?

Switching from one to another is going to be the solution. And each time, every substance has brought me to my knees, you know, in one one shape or another. Drinking alcohol took away the feelings of anxiety and depression and worry and made me not care. But it progressed, you know, the disease progresses and it switched from whatever substance it was, and then it hit me with hard alcohol and beer, and from 27 to about 31, 32 years old.

I mean, I was drinking alcohol every single day. And in the type of work that I was doing, you know, there wasn't a whole lot of I don't know, rules. So I could kind of get away with drinking on the job. I could show up hung over, you know, as long as I was making money, they were fine with it.

COVID hits, obviously. I'm now I'm sitting at home all the time. I don't really have stuff to do. I'm hitting the liquor store every day, and I was feeling myself spiral.

Alcohol was just so readily available for me. Being able to drive down to the liquor store or the CVS or whatever store, it's it's everywhere, and it's right in front of you, and it's in that big, nice neon sign, and make it look so nice, and I would get what I needed, and I would hold myself in the room and I would isolate and I would drink. And that destroyed me. Alcohol was my best friend and my worst enemy at the same time.

The way that it just dictated everything I did in life was, I mean, it was looking back on it. I mean, it's it's insane. Right? Insanity.

Telling myself, waking up in the morning, I am not going to do this today. Right? I am not going to put myself in a position where I have to drink this bottle. And I would do good, maybe 20-30 minutes, maybe I make it two hours, but without even knowing, I would grab my wallet and I would walk out the door and I would be at the liquor store again.

The last year of my drinking, I was drinking about two-fifths of vodka a day. Alright, and that was an everyday thing. My liver was failing. I did not know at the time, but I was starting to, you know, vomit and blood and all that kind of stuff.

You know, it was getting very bad. Um, I was starting to experience very high levels of delirium tremens where I'm hallucinating. Even when I'm sober, or excuse me, even when I'm under the influence, I'm seeing things, I'm hearing things, I'm having paranoid delusions, and I did not know what to do anymore besides drink. Through all this, it's been my solution, right?

If someone gets sick, I'm drinking. If it's a birthday, I'm drinking. If I lose my job, I'm drinking. So good or bad, that has always just been the thing that has, you know, been the constant.

I um I mean I hit bottom. I had sold everything that I owned in order to supply my habit, you know, supply my addiction. And the last few days of me in that room, it was my mattress on the floor, my phone charger in the wall, and everything else was gone because I sold it. And I bought, you know, the last bottles of vodka with a bag of loose change.

And on that last day, because I'm a big procrastinator at the same time, you know, I'm able to muster up enough courage to manipulate my my father into letting me move back in with him. And now here I am at 32 years old, moving back in with my parents, who I haven't lived with since I was 18. He takes a look at me, he's like, Oh my gosh, like, what is going on with you? And I'm I'm uh I'm uh I'm very good at deceiving people, and I gave them false hope, and I told them I need to get on Medi-Cal and I'm driven right now, and I need to just have a couple days to clean up.

I'm gonna get Some medication, things are going to be good. And I gave them that false hope and I tore that away from them. Okay, they've I spent about three, maybe four months at their house, and I do what what I do as an alcoholic. I steal, lie, cheat, and and I get what I need being not alcohol.

It came to a crash one night when you know I was in a blackout. I wanted to harm myself. I locked myself in the room for days. And my parents, you know, had to, you know, kind of wonder if I was alive or dead in there banging on the door.

It got to a point where they broke down the door, saw me in there, and I said I needed help. And thank God for that moment because that gift of desperation is what I'm able to find hope from. I what I'm able to draw hope from today, right? That moment where I was just done.

And it rocketed me onto this path that I just had no idea where I would be going. I um here I am going into a hospital, a psych ward. I begged for a recovery program and the resources were not there. And they send me to a place in Inglewood, which was more of a mental health facility, which was cool, and which, you know, I'm grateful that we have that place, but I needed, I know what I needed.

You know, I needed that, the Alcoholics Anonymous. You know, I just needed to be around people who understood. And at that, you know, mental health facility, I met a counselor who was working at a different treatment center, and I told him my story, and he told me his, and he, you know, was getting his master's and gonna be a social worker, a therapist. And I was just like, this doesn't add up, but his story is exactly like mine.

What did he do? I want what he did. And he suggested me going to a program, you know, a very intensive Alcoholics Anonymous-based 12-step program. And it was, you know, the thing that changed my life 100%.

I'd go into a program with the thought, like, hey, this time's gonna be different, but I'm gonna make it my way. You know, I'm gonna hang on to all my defects, like I mentioned earlier. And this place was just structured differently, right? They didn't allow you to isolate, they didn't allow you to be alone in your head.

They pushed helping other people, and they pushed being accountable for your actions. And I wasn't ready for that, right? The willingness that I had, as soon as it got uncomfortable, it went out the door. I was like, I don't know if I can do this.

And that was my path to AA and recovery. I mean, I spent three and a half years at this treatment center, it was long term, but I thank God for that. You know, I do because I was able to fully dedicate from the moment that I woke up till the moment I went to bed, the program of action. I worked the 12 steps in a way where I never would have maybe worked them with a different sponsor.

Maybe I would have and it would have worked out well, but I needed to be in a no-contact, isolated program away from society for that time for me to focus on myself and really get down to the nitty-gritty. I needed to rekindle a connection with God. I needed to learn the importance of helping other people and putting my stuff to the side, even though I was not feeling good and I was in resentment, I needed to go and be of service. I needed to give back to this place that was saving my life.

And I didn't even see it at the moment. And in that first year of recovery, man, it was, you know, I was unclear. I struggled. Like I said, the willingness would just come and go, and there would be glimpses like, hey, I'm getting better, but then you want me to do this, you want me to get uncomfortable, and I would, you know, run on my own self-will for a long time.

And you know, I had sobriety that first year, but I was still very sick. And through this process, you know, doing the steps in the order, I was able to find clarity, right? We I did a one, two, three with my sponsor, and we got down on our knees. We said the third step prayer.

And at that time, was I fully bought into turning my will and my life over to the care of God as I understood him? Probably not. Looking back, I think I was doing it just to progress. But the steps provide clarity, right?

The steps provide a connection with the higher power. And so just having some type of willingness at that time, I was able to grow from that, did a four step. Took me about three and a half months to write every single day for about an hour, a very in-depth and searching and fearless moral inventory, you know. I didn't leave anything out on that.

I wrote about the stuff that I didn't want to talk about with anyone, and I just put pen to paper, you know, and I gave it an honest try. This program has so much hope. And when I looked at people who had more time than me, and I saw the smiles on their face and I saw the change, I wanted that, right? I didn't know how I was gonna get it, but I wanted it.

And if it was through just doing these actions in following direction and doing what they're telling me to do, okay. A little more willingness would come from that. So I did my fourth step, finished that, and then did a fifth step with the sponsor. Did the heavens open up and I'm floating out of the room?

No, nothing like that happened, you know. But I was able to get honest and I was able to realize that I wasn't alone with some of the things that I deemed as crazy or abnormal. And I felt closer. I felt closer to myself, I felt closer to my sponsor, and more importantly, I felt closer to my higher power.

I got a lot of stuff off my chest. The weight had been lifted ever so slightly. There was still some there, you know. But come out of the fifth step, now I got a list of character defects.

My uh step six, I'm looking at these things that are ugly. Like, you're a people pleaser, like all these character defects that were written out on a piece of paper right in front of me. You're a baby, a people pleaser, manipulator, you're a pushover. I was just like, oh wow.

I was like, okay, well, I got some stuff to work on, right? And then we we did the seven step prayer, and here I am now completely at terms with who I am. Okay, I have it, I have all the facts of my life right in front of me, okay? And now it is on me, right?

It is on me to take the the next indicated action. It is on me now, with the help of other people, right? But I have a better idea of what I need to do now. So through this program comes step eight, you know, making a list.

I needed to make amends to my parents first and foremost, right? And and when I went into these amends, I had the thought like these are gonna make me feel better, right? And I was completely off with that, right? The amends was not meant for me.

Amends was meant for the other person, right? To get some kind of justice. You know, when I sat down with my dad, my dad was the first person I made amends to. And when I sat down with him and looked him in the eyes, like, of course, man, they were just so happy to see their son, you know, in a in a new light, and oh my gosh, there's color in his face, whatever it was.

When I took responsibility for the harm that I caused and I made that commitment to change, you know, I I don't my dad was a very hard person growing up. To see him tear up and cry in front of me was just like, it was unbelievable. You know, and I gave him a chance. At the same time, I was like, is there anything that you want to get off your chest that you want to talk to me about that I can own up to that I can take responsibility for right now?

And yes, he had some stuff. You know, he brought up me drinking at my sister's wedding and me not being present and me just doing what we do as alcoholics. And in the past, me before recovery, I hear these things and I run. And today, I heard those things and I knew exactly what to do.

I had a recovery-based response, you know, and I took responsibility once more. And the same thing happened with my mother. But my mom, she was not one to really bring up anything because again, my pattern is hey, if I get uncomfortable, I'm I'm gonna run. And and they still were kind of, I would say, skeptical, right?

I've given them false hope before. You know, they're happy, they were grateful for where I'm at, and oh my gosh, he looks like he's in a better spot than he's ever been. But at the same time, there was still doubt. And so she wasn't ready to really drop any of the things that you know really bothered her.

And now coming up on four years, there's been opportunities where I sit down with my mom and she can bring up things, you know, things that are still, you know, like kind of troublesome or bothersome for her. And we're able to have an adult conversation together. And that is extremely freeing. You know, I made amends to both my sisters, my brother-in-law, my best friends, bosses, financial amends.

My sponsor really pushed the amends process and not just stopping with the ones that I wanted to make. Of course, I want to make amends to my, you know, immediate family and grandmother, but at the same time, no, I'm not really looking forward to talking to my old boss that I used to steal money from, you know. But even with those uncomfortable ones, and when the people told me that they didn't really want anything to do with me anymore, but they appreciated the amends, wow, like the feeling of relief, you know, nine-step promises. I started to feel like there was change happening after making those amends, right?

There was always so much fear, like, are they gonna accept it? And it did, it wasn't even about that, it was about being a man of character, right? And having that level of integrity to where I can own up to stuff. You know, after I made those amends, things really started to just, I'd say, change for me in a positive way.

10, 11, and 12, I wrote a 10 step for two years every single day as a requirement from the recovery program that I was in. Hated doing it, but man, did that allow me to really take a look at myself? I'm talking about where I'm selfish, dishonest, fearful, holding secrets, where do I owe amends? Am I kind and loving to the people around me?

What resentments are coming up? Can I do better the next day? And what can I do? And then where did I see God through the stream of life?

When I did that every single day in the moment, like I said, hated it, yes, looked at it as a chore. Now I look back on it and I'm like, wow, that was an opportunity for me to get honest, and then I would have my sponsor check it the next day, and he would hold me to a way higher standard. He would hold me accountable and he would help me with the things that I was struggling with. And so, do I do that every day?

No. Should I? Most likely, yeah. I should probably get back onto it.

My program today is not perfect by any means. I would like it to look so much better that I go to meetings every single day and have sponsees. Like that is just not it for me right now. But there's always room to improve.

And as long as I am continually like growing spiritually, right, not becoming stagnant, then I feel like I'm going to be all right. Okay. When I do these things and talk, and you know, now today for work, I'm able to work as a drug and alcohol counselor. Like that program allowed me to go back to school.

I am three classes away from finishing my AA degree in human services addiction studies. I just finished my whole two-year program to get certified as a drug and alcohol counselor in California. You know, I moved out. I have my name on a lease.

I was able to buy a car and fix my credit. And then then, like, that stuff is all really, really cool and I love it. But I don't find happiness from it. You know, I've always thought the materialistic stuff was going to be what kept me sober.

You know, I wish it would, but it's just not the facts today, right? Where I find the most clarity today is by talking with someone one-on-one, right? Either someone, you know, who has more time than me or has less time than me. And I'm able to share just like I am right now, right?

And and there's something special, like when one alcoholic is talking to another, the magic happens right there, right? The cement that binds us together is our disease. And when we're able to just connect and feel like, hey, this guy gets it, wow, like it is amazing. And today I'm able to work with alcoholics pretty much every single day, you know, and that's not my program, but I I I'm very grateful for it, man, to have the opportunity to be around and engulfed in Alcoholics Anonymous pretty much every single day of my life.

And um, like I said, I couldn't even have imagined where my life would be today without this program. This program, I thought it was going to just like teach me how to be sober, but it also taught me how to be like a good person and how to have character and how to be an adult. And you know, I'm so grateful for the path that I am on today. It's not it's not promised, man.

It's not a guarantee, but as long as I'm waking up in the morning and I'm reminding myself, hey, I'm an alcoholic and I need help, right? I can't trust my brain right now. That thing's out to get me. That's the disease right there.

You know, it is still prevalent. So I I call my sponsor, I talk to my guys, I run my thinking, right? And I just try and be a better person that I used to be. Right.

And and with God helping other people in the 12 steps, like I could not be more grateful for the person that I've become and for the relationships that have been put in front of me because I love my friends and I just love you know life today. Before the program, I couldn't smile. I was sad, I was depressed, I was on psych meds, I was just a hot mess. And now today I am, you know, I'm a very positive person.

I feel like I'm able to bring hope to other people and I have purpose, right? My purpose today is to help other people and to be of service to Alcoholics Anonymous and more importantly, God. And really with that, I would say that's everything. SPEAKER_00 37:24 Thank you, Tommy.

SPEAKER_02 37:25 Yeah, you're welcome. SPEAKER_00 37:26 That was good. And I I I'm sure you are aware that you're very well spoken. Are you an artist or a writer?

SPEAKER_02 37:38 No. SPEAKER_00 37:39 Okay. SPEAKER_02 37:39 Well, you I just got better at public speaking by being a counselor. SPEAKER_00 37:44 Yeah.

You you have some poetic language uh that I don't know. Maybe when you listen back to it, you will hear what I hear. But um the disease was still running game in my head. Um that's not really the best example.

I'm looking at my notes. I'm like, come on, there were some really good Oh, oh, I found it. I found it. Okay, so um evil and corroding thread.

You were talking about this uh, I think fear that was just kind of running through you. SPEAKER_02 38:24 That's from the literature. That's chapter five, right there. SPEAKER_00 38:27 That's not you, the evil and corroding thread.

No, that is not me. Oh, that's funny. Okay. Well, Bill W strikes again with his artistic writing.

SPEAKER_02 38:37 No, I want to take credit for it, but I can't. SPEAKER_00 38:40 Oh, that's great. Well, it's still very good delivery. Um anyways, okay, let's get back to your story.

So thank you so much for your share. I really enjoyed enjoyed your public speaking talent. It was enjoyable. And you you rolled in the steps in such an or organic way.

Uh it wasn't forced, it was just very natural as you walked through what you experienced. We talk about the magic that happens when one alcoholic talks to another. When I was little, I thought um if you were Catholic too, because I grew up Catholic, if you were Catholic too, that meant we were family. Like, oh, we're family, like we come from the same genetic line, is what I thought in my head.

And I feel that way about alcoholics, like we all came from the same planet. And when there's just us talking, the magic is like, oh, from my hometown, my home planet. SPEAKER_02 39:39 Yes, absolutely. I relate to that so much.

Every time someone new comes in to work, like a sick alcoholic, I am able to just break the ice, right? I can talk about one of my crazy stories that would people would say, like, dude, you're you need to go to jail, man. Like, you need to be locked up for what you just said. And this person is laughing, he is in tears, right?

He gets it. And I love that. Like, this is our people. It is um, it's a fellowship, man, and it is super cool to be a part of.

SPEAKER_00 40:13 Yeah. You talked about having morals and values uh early on um growing up. I imagine that made your addiction even more difficult, where somebody who doesn't even know what their what morals and values are and how they relate to our life can drink with without really having the dissidence that is probably caused by having a Catholic upgrade and knowing morals and values and wanting to live by those, and then not. So, can you talk about how you went through the process of um rekindling your relationship with God or a power greater than yourself, having gone been close, maybe, and then far and and whatnot?

SPEAKER_02 41:01 Yeah, absolutely. Um, when I came into recovery early on, I was fully closed off. God isn't real, that stuff is mumbo jumbo. Like I would say that there was just something so deep inside of me that would see it work for other people.

Like my mother is extremely religious, and you know, through this process, I feel like she has grown so much closer to God because of all the turmoil that I have put her through, right? I was told to use the program as my higher power when I was new. You know, I can't deny what was going on. The stories that I hear from other people do not add up with the people that I'm seeing in front of me.

Like I was pretty set, like I know how to pray. I've been doing this my whole life, and now here I am asking for help, right? And getting told directions that I didn't even understand, and starting extremely simple, right? I was told early on when you wake up in the morning, you hit your knees, and you ask God to keep you sober today, or ask whatever, don't even have to say God.

And I was like, okay, I can do that. And at the end of the night, you make it through the day sober, you hit your knees again, and you think you're higher powered. Like, okay, I can do that. And little by little, being immersed in the program and seeking out guidance, you know, because I was told very well that my way look isn't working anymore, and I need to ask people who know what they're doing or have a better understanding, I would say.

And it just grew. It just grew, right? We would say the serenity prayer, and then okay, now I'm gonna incorporate 86 to 88, you know, and I would read on awakening in the morning, and I would, you know, try and implement, okay, pause and pause when agitated or doubtful. Okay, I can do that, you know, and then okay, now they want me, let's do the third-step prayer, okay, seven-step prayer in the morning, or 11-step prayer, and and little by little, like these prayers that I had a big sheet to, and I would read, I started memorizing, okay.

And now they're telling me, yes, we should make it more personalized. Okay, well, here I am praying for all the things that I want, right? God help me with this, help me with this, help me with this. And it was very selfish, right?

I just wanted everything on my time, and you know, I was shown ways to pray for other people, right? Pray for them to experience the good things that I want to experience, and pray for my family and for the people that I don't like, or you know, that I am judgmental of, right? And and wish for them to be better people. And I don't know, like I don't find myself extremely religious today, but at the same time.

I'm pretty spiritual, right? I think it's ingrained. Um, there was a point in time, maybe two-ish years in into recovery, where I was like, oh wow. Like I noticed myself praying when I walked into a room of people that I didn't know.

God help me with this right now. Allow me to be a vessel. Help me to, you know, provide some kind of comfort to the people around me, right? Don't let me just sit in my head the whole time.

Allow me to bear the fruits of the goodness that you're giving me, right? And um yeah, it's just something that I don't know. It it's ingrained, but I don't do it perfectly. Right?

There'll be a day when I'm like, oh wow, I'm running late and I ran out the door and I didn't pray. And is it a necessarily bad day? Not every time. Right?

But I just don't want to make anything like that a habit anymore. If I realize, oh okay, it's been two days where I haven't, you know, gotten on my knees or, you know, done my morning routine, read the daily devotion, like, okay, I'm treading dangerous territory. Even though you know things could be going perfectly, I am not in a position where I want to risk anything anymore. I mean, if this is what's gotten me to this point, then I need to at least put the effort in.

And like I said, I don't do it perfectly. And there's some days are better than others, and I wish it looked a little better, but you know, I just have to remind myself and and and be able to tell people like, hey, this is what's going on with me, and allow them to give me direction and tell me, hey, I don't think that's the best idea. I and and so I I just try and do better every day. SPEAKER_00 45:41 I I appreciate your description there of um, I don't know, when you walk in the door, just kind of making that connection, it sounds like throughout the day with your higher power where you're checking in.

SPEAKER_02 45:57 I try. Yeah, you know, I was told, I was told, hey, you go into breakfast, you you say a prayer, lunch prayer, uh, dinner prayer, and you go into group, say a prayer, into a meeting, you know, it's just like it's just what I was taught. And I didn't see it in the moment. I'm like, why am I doing this?

I'm just shooting words up, and now my connection with the higher power, it's not it's not this like thy though, holier than thou kind of terminology. It's me saying, hey man, I need your help right now. Can you guide me through this? I don't know.

It's just more of a personal relationship than something that I'm just kind of shooting up there and hoping something grabs it. I know that something's there. I can't deny it. SPEAKER_00 46:43 Yeah, I liked when you explained that.

You you had said that you couldn't deny what you saw right in front of you, and that's such a good um lever to pull when newcomers come in. It's just like, well, just look around you. You cannot deny the these when we share our stories. Every story that I record on here is such a miracle that people get worried about it being good.

I'm like, dude, every story is a miracle. Every story is good. Like every miracle is miracle. SPEAKER_02 47:18 I agree.

I agree with that. SPEAKER_00 47:20 So do your does your um diagnosis of OCD and ADHD impact your program in any way? Do you manage it differently? Do you have any tips for for people that are perhaps uh struggling with that and are in program or trying to program?

SPEAKER_01 47:37 Okay. SPEAKER_02 47:38 Um I came into the program on like medication for that kind of stuff. And I don't know if this is for everyone, but the people that I was surrounded with told me that you have alcoholism. And I was like, okay, I didn't see it in the moment, you know.

I was like, no, I have this, this, and this, actually, right? And I wanted to combat that. And they're like, okay, you know, and I don't know, it just came with more, more work, more clarity that I realized, like, hey, maybe I don't need all this, right? And I'm no doctor or anything like that, but today I don't take any type of like medications anymore, and I'm grateful for that.

But at the same time, man, some people have it a lot maybe worse, or or maybe it is more prevalent, and like if you need to take whatever you take, cool, right? But I was just more open-minded to the point, like, hey, I'm just a sick alcoholic who is suffering from you know, alcoholism, and that's what's making me kind of crazy. And once that like spiritual malady was healed inside of me, then all the like anxiety, fear, worry that I experienced my entire life has dissipated. And it comes up, believe me, I was anxious to do this right now, and it was not that bad, right?

Everything my mind wants to say, like, hey, this is gonna be really uncomfortable, it never plays out that way. And so I think that when I was able to heal spiritually, I was able to heal mentally and physically, and you know, now I'm just a different person. So I don't follow your advisor's advice, right? If that if they're telling you, hey, you should probably go this way, okay, try it out.

And then if it's not working, then you can always go back to it, right? I don't think there's like a I don't know, like a uh a cross-the-board fix for anyone who might deal with mental health and the and the disease at the same time. Yeah. SPEAKER_00 49:43 Yeah, definitely.

We all come with our own makeup that presents itself so differently combined with what we experience and all of the things. Um but I do appreciate you answering that question. Yeah, of course. When we when I think about my anxiety, especially as a kid, it was it was prevalent.

And do you remember Spiegel in Lord of the Rings? Or he has his other person he talks to, like Spiegel talks we and he's has like a conversation with herself that is another. Like that's what my disease is. I actually named it.

Her name is Victoria, and I tell her to shut the fuck up all the time. SPEAKER_02 50:29 Okay. SPEAKER_00 50:30 Like, so I have like created this personality that I've named it. So when it starts beating up Tara, it's it's not, it's like that mean girl Victoria that just needs to shut up.

SPEAKER_02 50:44 No, I get that. SPEAKER_00 50:45 I have the same thing going on for but the program and the principles and staying connected and and also like the word prayer that you're telling me to pray throughout the day, that I hear to me, the connotative or the definition, the denotative definition of prayer is to ask for something. And that's not what my sponsor means when she says pray throughout the day. It means I should talk to my higher power more than I'm talking to Tara throughout the day.

It's so simple to walk in a room and I do it right before I ask questions every time I record, or most times when I'm connected, I just say a little prayer of please help me ask the questions that you would like me to ask and stay connected. Prayer does not have to equal ask for something. SPEAKER_02 51:36 Right. That connection is what we mean.

SPEAKER_00 51:40 I feel like I just got on a little soapbox, so I'm just gonna step down and get back to my questions. SPEAKER_01 51:44 Okay. SPEAKER_00 51:45 Okay. It's morning for everybody.

It's Sunday morning, and I'm caffeinated, so we'll forgive my soapbox behavior. Maybe I'll cut it off. SPEAKER_01 51:54 It's all good. SPEAKER_00 51:55 Final recording.

Okay. Um, you talked about the willingness to that would come and go uh in your first year. You were in an intense program. You you said it was structured differently, and explained that a bit.

You had like an insane fourth-step writing process. I think you said an hour a day for over three months, which sounds insanely long. SPEAKER_01 52:21 Yep. SPEAKER_00 52:22 Um so, what do you want to share about that time and the willingness that would come and go?

Whatever you want to elaborate for the newcomer that perhaps is in that first year, totally struggling and not knowing if any relief is ever gonna come. SPEAKER_02 52:38 Yeah, absolutely. In that time when I was writing my fourth step, I would have just glimpses of clarity, right? I would get out of the writing room and I'd be really unclear because I would be in self the whole time for that whole hour.

And as soon as you know I got out, it's pushed on you. Hey, you got to get in solution. What is solution? Turning my resolutely turning my thoughts to another alcoholic and seeing where I can be of service, right?

Seeing where I can be of help. I didn't want to do that. It's comfortable for me to stay in my head, it is comfortable for me to be in self-pity, for me to get all sad about where I'm at in life. And it when I sit in that for too long, it consumes me, like I would think it would for any other alcoholic.

And I didn't learn this until I was a little further along in the program, but just because I'm like working and have good things going on, that doesn't mean that it's just everything is perfect, right? The world doesn't care that I have character or that I'm you know, that I dedicated all this time to myself. Like it doesn't care. I heard this in a meeting a couple weeks ago when I was around family, right?

I hadn't been around family and it's Christmas time, and they're and and I wanted to kind of well, I didn't want to, I was, uh you know, I was character assassinating the people that I love. Like, oh wow, look at this person, you know, he's being selfish right now. Oh my gosh, this guy's got a big ego, and like who am I to do anything like that, right? Just because I have almost four years of sobriety does not make me any better than the people around me.

And the guy at the meeting said, just because I'm getting sober, just because you're getting sober, does not mean that everyone else has to, and that everyone else has to be a good person. And I I heard that and I was just like, oh wow, ain't that the truth? Okay, so when I was early in recovery, I really had to tap into the hope that was going on and just be like, hey, it's it doesn't have to be like this forever, and I have to have some kind of faith. Script's principles, two and three, hope and faith.

And if I am seeing that there is hope in this, and I have faith that it's going to work for me, I'm getting little glimpses of it, and I'm seeing these other people recover, you're in the middle of it, right? You just gotta kind of push through. You go to a meeting, you feel better. Sometimes, sometimes you're more unclear.

You go and talk to your sponsor, and he helps you, and you're upset. Okay, cool. But look at the good things going on in your life, right? Have some gratitude, right?

You're not kicking dope, you're not in detox, you know, you're striving to be a better person, you're developing connection with God, right? It's always got to come back to gratitude for me. Like the good things will outweigh the bad things today, especially when I have that perspective. But the disease likes to latch on to the negativity, right?

It likes, especially early in recovery, like it's gonna latch on to all the good times, it's gonna latch on to the parties and the fun that you had and you know the experiences, and like it could never get any better than that, you know. When I was under the influence, and it's like it doesn't want you to think about all the harm that you caused your family or the you know the depression that you were in, or the really dark spot of you being homeless on the corner and not having anyone to call. Like, and so as long as I'm like keeping those memories fresh in my brain, like that's gonna be the motivation, like I talked about earlier, right? Our story is just so powerful, and then when we're able to voice it and come to terms, like, hey, that was who I was, but it's not who I am today.

Thank you, God, for that. And that's pretty powerful, you know. So it's like, dude, if you're really looking at your situation, and it's like that's pretty awesome, man. Like you're doing the four step, you're doing an inventory on yourself, like things are looking up for you, right?

You're on the path to recovery. Out like way, weigh the pros and cons, man. Like the pros are always gonna be more, I'd say. SPEAKER_00 56:53 Thank you, Tommy.

That was good. I like just the simplicity of it. Just very well done. Tap into hope and glimpses and push through.

Those are all very good simple tips. SPEAKER_02 57:08 I feel like the people that I come into contact with are able to understand it when I can just break it down and keep it just a sample. It's just so much easier. SPEAKER_00 57:20 Yeah, and the disease, you talked a bit about this too, the disease being like just a trickster.

I wrote down um you said that's who I was. And I was like, I can tell my Victoria she doesn't live here anymore. Like that person we were trying to instigate, she's not here. Uh-huh.

Oh, that's good. Yeah. Okay. Final two questions.

Uh we are going, I'm gonna give you a minute to think about it, but is there anything that you left out of your story or that you're thinking of now that you would like to share? SPEAKER_02 57:57 No. I think whatever came out needed to come out. I don't want to overthink it.

I think that was pretty an accurate depiction of what's going on with Mr. Tommy right here. SPEAKER_00 58:10 All right. Final question for the listener who is suffering with or without sobriety and they're listening, what message would you like to leave them with?

SPEAKER_02 58:23 You don't have to feel how you feel right now anymore. There is relief. It might not look how you want it to look in the moment, but if you want change and you want help, it's available to you. It starts with picking up the 500-pound phone and calling a helpline, a treatment center, your sponsor, or just someone who can listen to you.

And there's resources out there, right? I think there's more resources now than there ever has been. So if you're struggling, you're not alone. We get it, we've all been there.

But there has to be some sort of willingness. If you're done with how you feel today, okay, cool. There's gotta be some kind of willingness to change and having an open mind to do something that might be uncomfortable, right? And when you do those two things, clarity, relief will be experienced.

SPEAKER_00 59:30 For more information, read the first 164 pages of the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous or visit keepcoming back.net.